Does China Turn You Into a Jerk?
You know you’ve done it (if you’ve been here long enough). Kept Grandma back when she tries to cut in front of you in KFC. Forced your way out of the subway car in a less than polite way to push your way through masses of people. Cursed at the shop keeper who grabbed your arm one too many times.
Things you might not have dreamed of before coming to China. But you do them to stand up for yourself and people are doing the same thing to you so it’s okay, right?
You’re a Stranger, You Don’t Matter
This is the philosophy of many people in China - including many foreigners who have been here for a while. You can see it in the way people treat each other on the streets. Or with the bleeding bicyclist who isn’t helped until the police come.
In China, if you’re a stranger, you don’t matter. This applies even more to Chinese people than foreigners - while as a foreigner you will be treated with slightly more respect than the next guy or girl, you will still encounter a lot of behavior that comes off as just plain rude.
Crossing the Line
If you’ve lived in China for any significant length of time, your thought process on what is or is not acceptable behavior to strangers will most likely change. If you’ve been here several years and haven’t changed a bit, either you live in a sheltered world or you are a saint.
You also probably wouldn’t question it if I told you that lowering your shoulder, intentionally ramming into someone, or cutting in line yourself is the behavior of a true jerk.
But such behavior begs the question - where is the line between jerk and normal? And how many people come to China as nice guys or girls and end up acting like jerks to strangers?
What Do You Think?
This post is more full of questions than answers - so it would be great if you could take a stab at this question below. I’ve got my own thoughts on it hinted at in the post above, but would rather hear your perspective first.
Well Spoken….. The article also fits Vietnam quite well….. After living here for a number of years I concur, life and fitting the culture really is more about questions than answers, when you try so hard to wear your Vietnamese face only to be continually be reminded you are not never will be Vietnamese….. You get to the point you can’t conscience the “rude behaviour”, which you know many locals also hate….. then you can’t hold back on defending someone weaker (less imposing) than you, only to discover your assistance is considered more rude than the initial behaviour…… Yes indeed….. The only people with all the answers are the newbies or those who live in expat land and see the world through air conditioned windows.
Casual Adventurer - The only thing you can do is to improve your own behavior toward others, and to never be rude to others who have not been rude to you.
Being a white face in Asia, I’ve often been standing in line to make a purchase and have been cut off by a local (or a Chinese/Vietnamese tourist). I’m the quiet type, so I don’t typically make a fuss. It’s only when I’m in a hurry that I speak up or make a well heard attempt to call out the person who cut in front of me. If I’m not in a hurry then I let it slide, but I hold no respect for those without manners. It’s always nice, however, when the cashier notices that I was cut off and makes a wonderful effort to ignore the person who cut in front of me. Literally, the cashier will take my order as if looking straight through the person standing in front of me who cut me off. Such has only happened in Thailand so far.
Hey Jeremy,
That definitely is a good feeling - cashiers putting assholes in their place. It has happened about 10-15% of the times people have obviously cut in China, so more than a handful of times.
This is a good article. When I first arrived in Shanghai nine months ago I thought that people were extremely rude. Now, I find myself doing many of the things they do(except for the spitting). At first I tried to turn the other cheek and be polite, but now its like “would they do the same for me?” probably not.
Hi Neffy - These days very little phases or bothers me here… guess you just get used to a new normal.
Now I never get upset and then do something rude on purpose (in fact I try to be polite when it won’t result in me getting pushed out of the way, etc)… it’s just limited to accidental bump & run stuff.
Strange how your perspective continually changes.
I’ve actually started with the spitting thing. Damn.
Ricardo - new advertising campaigns leading up to the Olympics not working for you? The spitting thing is still disgusting.
入鄉隨俗嘛
I had a field day when I learned the Chinese expression for “When in Rome”. I feel China definitely makes me a worse person, swearing, spitting, cutting in line, pushing my way through crowds.
Where were you guys in ‘China’ that people lined up enough for someone to cut? Hong Kong? Something’s fishy… :p
Heh… Shenzhen. It’s not so bad, really.
Since writing this a lot of the bad habits I had picked up have mostly gone away, except when necessary.
Guess most of it doesn’t bother me any more.
I’ve been in China almost 3 years now and still can’t deal with the rudeness. I had a girl cut in front of me waiting to get on the bus the other day and in English I exclaimed “Damn you are rude!” she turned around and said in English “I’m so sorry”. Hmmmm….
The apartment complex I live in posted papers stating people should not throw stuff off their balcony as it might endanger others. Now, I’m not a rocket scientist, but throwing something from a height, say the 32nd floor, might KILL someone below!!
Spitting is a national pasttime ranks #2 behind Ping-Pong
Letting your child poop and pee on the street and in public trashcans is considered potty training.
That one long fingernail..Yikes!! It ain’t for snorting coke. It’s used to dig nose goobers and ear honey…..
Oh well, life is quite interesting here.
@ Nomad
I have been here for three months and I also have seen the creepy long fingernail. Ewwwww!
By the way, no one has ever mentioned disgusting BO.
DJWolff - you mean from the other foreigners? =)
It’s not so bad for most Chinese guys or girls, although it is strange that no one wears anti-perspirant
This is so true! Glad I’m not the only one who feels that way.
From people who intentionally veer into your path on the street to the institutionalized discrimination and avoidance of accountability.
Or if you hold the door for someone and they stride through it without acknowledgment like it’s your place - evil!
I used to unconditionally side with women who were manhandled. But in China, I’ve seen them be the ones who initiated the abuse, so no, I don’t get involved with their dramas.
But being mugged with a cinderblock to the back of my skull, forced to defend myself against two muggers while the crowd just watched indifferently, I just counted my blessings they didn’t all jump me in some jingoistic orgy.
Of course, the incident was my fault, the doorman told security. After all, the foreigner was the one who pushed first. When I think about my pregnant wife at home, my thoughts turn to fire and brimstone. For the muggers, but also for the culture that breeds such simplistic, delusional outgroup negativity bias along racial lines. “Oh, China is developing, be patient.” Pollyannas.
If the US made mistakes, why not learn from them today? Because it’s a handy rationalization for one’s own criminal psychology.
Ouch, JD, glad to hear you made it out of that situation okay.
Yeah, I’d be afraid that if someone jumped you and you defended yourself, that onlookers would assume it was you who did the attacking and gang up on the foreigner.
Way to go JD. I had a similar experience in Seoul last winter. 3 high schoolers trying to punk the uey-guk. 4yrs in the Marine Corps and a broken bottle sent them and their “eye tuning” girlfriends running. Thanks onlookers!!
Essentially, I’m here to make a fair income that I couldn’t make back home. I don’t have the interest or motivation to embrace China or any of its panda-licking goodness.
There are so many hygiene and etiquiette problems over here. Like a former friend had said to me, ‘China is intense’. I couldn’t agree more. The inevitable stresses of living in the land of China *will* get to even the most kind-hearted. I’ve seen it happen.
As for me, I’ve become more self-protectionist and indifferent towards most anyone. There is a necessary survival mentality that occurs with living in a crowded, dirty country lacking a tangible legal system. Your on own your own in China. You’ve been warned.
I don’t think China necessarily makes one a “jerk.” I think it mainly depends on the individual. One needs to seperate “jerk” behavior as opposed to “survival” behavior. The true foreigner jerks do rude behaviors and do so while looking down on the rest of the populace. Normal foreigners are just being rude to get by, just like all of the other Chinese. As every other post suggests: China is a tough place. Not a place for sissies. Since coming back from China, nothing phases me in the United States. People are a bunch of spoiled weaklings here. They complain about so much irrelevant crap. Try living in China. Then you’ll have something to bitch about. Anyway, as annoying as the Chinese can be, at least they are real.
@HowietheFink…
“As for me, I’ve become more self-protectionist and indifferent towards most anyone.”
Tick that box.
If I witnessed a 7 car serious pile-up here, I’d
think - “idiots you deserve it”… because of your ridiculous driving.
In Australia I’d be calling 000 (911) and kicking in car windows to pull victims out potentially burning wrecks. With plenty of help from burly male passers-by who’d pull over and join in.
J.
Could not agree with more with the general consensus here. I’ve been in China for two years now and also find myself becoming more “jerkish”. Back in Canada i’d be the first one there to help a motorist or somone who appears to be distressed, same as Hamieson. But here I just try to ignore it. It’s hard at first when all of your sensibilities are crying out for you to help.
Thankfully I have not resorted to the spitting or the pushing and shoving. But I do find myself wanting to punch a few people in the face at least a few times a day. =)
I too found myself become more rude after a while. I’ve only spend 5 months in China, and it’s been 6 months now since I got home..and sometimes I still feel I can bump into someone that doesn’t seem to notice me while walking on the street. I have to control myself though, as Dutch people aren’t like the Chinese. Yes, we are rude sometimes, but in the mean time, we also get offended really easy if someone is rude to us..
So..not the nice girl I used to be, but I’m sure that when I’ll go back to China, I would have to get used to the ‘rudenesss’ all over again anyway. You gotta love the Chinese and their mysterious ways;-)
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You didn’t mention the STARING ! That the Chinese make you feel like a Zoo animal in a cage that is their for their amusement. Pointing. Fetching other family members to look too.
Or that they think it is okay to mock you to your face on a bus or on the Metro thinking you can’t understand their Devil’s tongue of a ‘language’.
Can you imagine any circumstances where any Westerner would even bat an eyelid at a Chinese person our own country ?
This country turns us into the kind of people i’m sure we all swore we would never become.
Hey Andy,
I gotta agree with you, it’s true that many chinese people likes to point and stare at foreigners as if they are from Mars or something…
by the way, this is coming from a native Chinese person
This is only because that China is not a diverse country. I mean, sure, we got 56 different nationalities, but we all look the same (from a foreigner’s point of view). This is only the beginning;I’m sure that things will be much better for the next few decades.
But if you think of it from another point of view, the whole chinese culture is this way. I mean, when I was young, I was taught that I had to present the best of everything to guests…from food to presents, you name it. So when foreigners come in to this country, people are gonna stare, point, etc, but there are also those that respect you, sometimes even respect foreigners more than the natives…
and this leads to another topic… why do some chinese people respect foreigners more than the natives? It’s got to a point where if you own a corporation in China, you have to have at least 2 or 3 foreigners working (as vice president or president) for you. If not, other chinese corporation simply won’t sign a deal with you…
I haven’t started spitting, cursing, cutting in line, or urinating in public, but I do push a bit when exiting buses and subway cars.
what really bugs me are the bikes that don’t even break for pedestrians when the walk light’s green.
What is with the dumb asses that stand in front of the bus exit door but have no intention of getting off for several stops? I now almost knock them over (on purpose) to teach them a lesson as to why that might not be the brightest idea.
I saw some parent holding their kid over a trashbin/ashtray in a department store while the kid peed in it. I looked at them in disgust and shook my head. They then tried to use English with their kid while we shared an elevator as if that was going to redeem themselves in my eyes.
I agree with most of the stuff people in here write. But one good thing is, that being in China makes you appreciate your own country more …
After reading the article and all comments with great interest, I can’t stop laughing. What I see from you guys is just like as the same situation as I had when I first started my life in Netherlands 3 years ago. Let’s fairly call it culture shock.
I was so suprised and confused when the people in fron of me hold the door for me for the first time in Holland.”Do we know each other? Does he wanna talk to me?” something like these came across my mind at that moment. Later I realized it was just a common custom in the country.
I also kept complaining the rudeness of Dutch poeple, how could they speak out whatever in their mind without caring and even regardless some words could get people hurt or awkward.
The dramatic noise they will make when blowing their nose doesn’t matter where they are is another shocking issue.
But I gradually understand most of their behaviors and found out all the actions you see are derived from a kind of culture which, deep down, raises up these people. There is always a reason behind it not just as simple as a rude, weird, or ridiculous movement in our eyes.
I was born in Shanghai, then spent 3 years in Netherlands, now have a life in Czech Republic, which revoluted Communism to Capitalism 20 years ago. Apparently, Communist influence can still be traced everywhere. The country is a mixture. People are so characterized in these 3 countries. If you are stuck in a country other than your hometown for whatever reasons, try to appreciate the culture there and watch it instead of comparing with your own country.After all,it’s not your home. You probably will have more fun by watching it as a guest.
I read this with great interest and i’m glad that I’m not alone. Actually I myself too is of chinese origins but I was born and rise in Singapore.
Before coming to China (beijing), I was absolutely amazed by the deep chinese culture and language (watching CCTV and chinese films). But after coming over for just slightly over 2 weeks, my tolerance is already wearing thin. I have witnessed and experienced almost everything said here about how rude, boorish and inconsiderate the chinese people were. I came about this website while trying to search for some strategies to deal with them.
I’ve lived in Australia and find Australia to be such a beautiful country and the people are so gracious and lovely. After learning so much goodness from the australia people, I think I’ll be doing myself a great disservice if i’m to allow myself to become like the china’s chinese.
I think we just have to learn not to take their bad behavior too personally. With better education for the new generation, I believe they will become better over time. Meanwhile, as we learn to fight for our rights and defend ourselves in this hostile country, we must be careful not to become one of them ourselves…
Good points all around. About a week ago I was in line to see the Buddha Tooth relic at Badachu along with a family of rather well mannered middle-classish Chinese, and while we were in the rather long line waiting to see the relic, people were literally pushing the entire time. It brought be to a small conflict of morals as part of me wanted to let it slide, since this was, after all a temple, but part of me really wanted to start tossing elbows at the devout old women shamelessly stepping between us. It was maddening
Really though, its the public transportation that is the most corrosive to one’s sense of polite behavior. fun stuff.
Yes, it’s true that Chinese people can be rude. But it is not just them. Other countries (especially the poorer ones) can be worse.
I think countries that are richer have nicer people. However, they can be stuck-up and look down on foreigners. So I think it goes like this:
Wealthier countries have more polite but stuck-up people.
Poorer countries have ruder but people who look foreigners.
…I guess a lot of Chinese like foreigners because they’re successful (and the Chinese love success). And because they are a little racist…
Either way, if someone is rude to you, don’t back off. Face them. Chinese men can be full of themselves (but really are nothing) and Chinese women can just be
sissies, but they generally aren’t very good at confronting
people.
They do little things to you ONLY if they think you can be pushed around.
Interesting topic. We always remained polite while in China, and don’t believe we became jerks at all.
However, the American couple, Andy and Katrina (aptly named!) absolutely hell-raised us at four in the morning with extremely loud music they played while in a drunken, drugged stupor. They did this time after time, and made our lives a living hell. This was in the sanctity of a university in Guangdong Province, near Hong Kong. so, be careful, some of your fellow expats could indeed be complete jerks and losers. We find the peoplle in China to be wonderful, and have learned a lot from them.
I find my students in China to have much higher principles, to be much more educated, and be of much better character than those back in the States. My children are way ahead of the students in American schools due to their experiences in China. If I am not in China, I always miss China. Fond memories of wonderful people.