Racism in China Comments 1-200
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# 1|Andy Zhang says:
A couple years ago, I was surprised to see a group of Chinese tourists were scared of black people in the United States. Since I am a Chinese and I can communicate with them, I asked them why. It turned out most of their impressions of black (African American) people were came from large media corporations in America such as ABC, NBC, CBS and CNN. These media reports are so slanted to black people (especially the reports aired in China’s network), that some people naturally developed a phobia. If media continue to show Asians as bank robbers, criminals on the news (such as O.J. Simpon’s case), I am sure many people will be scared of Asian too. I am not sure it is Chinese people to blame on this, not entirely anyway.
# 2|Jeremy says:
Hi Andy,
That’s a great point - if all you have been exposed to for your entire life have been images of a particular group of people being bad or violent, you will probably end up accepting them as this way.
Yet there are many American movies, either pirated or broadcast on certain channels in China, that present black people as just like anyone else. Wouldn’t this help to provide a more balanced perspective?
What do you think? No doubt that there are negative influences coming from Western media.
# 3|MAC says:
I think that’s a cheap excuse. Fear and negative images is hardly the only factor at play. I ran across a post on a Chinese board today about supposedly hilarious incidents where people have been caught talking about foreigners in Chinese. (No acknowledgment that this is pretty lousy behavior, of course, just a warning that it’s embarrassing to get caught.) The last one involved a UNIVERSITY student saying to a black guy, in Chinese, “hello, your mother was a monkey,” and getting caught. That’s just flat-out vile, and I sure don’t think it came from Hollywood.
# 4|DAvon says:
This thread has definitely given me pause.
As an African American who has recently decided to teach English in China this, and other posts, make me really wonder if it will be worth learning mandarin, moving to another country. Particularly if one, I am at a severe disadvantage, and two, if I am going to feel like I live in Mississippi circa 1911.
I have a very strong grasp of the English language as well as many other skills that I can contribute including a BS in Public Policy and over 6 years of fundraising experience in Washington, DC and Chicago.
I guess continuing this thread and adding another question to it, Is it a waste of my time to move to China?
# 5|Jeremy says:
Hi Davon,
Update: Check out this post at Lost Laowai that I wrote specifically to try and get some more thoughts and advice for your situation.
Just sent you an email - I don’t think it would be a waste of time, but you might not get out of it what you expect (and this is true no matter who you are).
Truth is, I’m not qualified to answer your question, but hope that others can.
# 6|Ian says:
Hey Davon,
You might want to read this article on a recent assault by Beijing police on random dark-skinned males who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time before you make your decision:
Crude Drug Raid Highlights Ignorance of Beijing Police
I have a couple of African friends here who also work as teachers and, while they don’t complain too much, I know that they have to put up with a lot more crap than I (as a white Irishman) ever have to, both inside and outside of the classroom. They are still living here however.
On the whole, I think Chinese people are extremely racist, and that racism is directed against all foreigners to some degree (though certainly the darker the skin, the worse it is). I believe that this stems from the very strong sense of racial superiority inculcated among the Han people by their culture. However, at present it is mostly relatively benign, and mostly just manifests itself as condescension and ignorant speech and behaviour, which doesn’t hurt anyone.
However, China has only been accepting foreigners in noticeable numbers for a very few years and, as the numbers swell, I fear things could start to get uglier. The strong nationalism now promoted as a unifying ideology in place of Communism doesn’t help one bit. I’ve been here 3 years and it seems to me that visible signs of racism, both in terms of the attitude displayed to me by the average Chinese person and stories of assaults on non-Chinese (of all colours) which seem to have racist overtones, have increased in that time.
That’s not to say I necessarily think things are worse here than they are in many Western countries. I’m from Ireland, and Irish people have proven themselves to be at very racist in recent years as immigrant numbers have swollen rapidly and unprecedentedly. However, it seems to me that the cultural conditions here are right for a great flowering of intolerant behaviour if the number of visibly non-Han people in China continues to grow at its current pace.
# 7|MAC says:
Davon- I’m guessing you read about the Sanlitun incident? It’s not always like “1911 Mississippi” like it apparently was the other night. A lot of black people in China aren’t really aware of racism before they either get decent at Chinese or start to figure out how things work; lots of people will manage to be polite to your face, but that doesn’t mean they don’t take it for granted that black people are inferior, (I would have to say that this is a basic working assumption, not a point of controversy, for a large majority of people) and I would guess that being told that would probably tend to color your perception of things.
Unless you have serious plans for Chinese (I don’t really believe the “learn Chinese and you’ll be the master of the future, look at their GDP growth” hype) or are dying for experience abroad, I wouldn’t really recommend taking time out of your life to teach in China unless you’re really in a rut. If you want to do it, I would suggest Taiwan; I haven’t been, but supposedly it’s all-around better, and people are at least not SO ignorantly, unabashedly, matter-of-factly racist towards black people.
# 8|So some people in China are racist against blacks - should you come to China? | Lost Laowai China Blog says:
[…] I wrote a post about Racism in China, just before finding out about the Beijing Police Rounding Up and Beating of Black People at […]
# 9|Patrick says:
Nice and well balanced article. But the fact is Chinese are just not aware of how racist they are, nor do they understand the notion of racism at the first place.
# 10|Kirana says:
reading about this, i finally understand what my chinese hostel mate really meant when she remarked that she really disagrees with (in her homeland) viewing badly chinese girls who date black men. this was when i was in university in wales. at the time, i thought it was just a general statement of opinion, but now i wonder if she was speaking against a specific reality that exists back home. she’s fantastic - eccentric and a great friend. i’m a brown-skinned malay, by the way. i’m also reminded of a chinese undergrad who visited our hostel once (same university) who, in front of an international audience, proudly proclaimed that japanese girls are good only for, let’s just say, used. at the time i was very glad that a hostel mate who was from japan, was not there. the kid was totally oblivious of his own racism.
there’s a malaysian of indian descent who went to work in hong kong as an expat, and he said that there was racism there too. when he was seeking treatment at a clinic, everyone else was served first, and he was last despite not having arrived last. my brother got the same treatment in singapore more than 10 years ago, but i think nowadays singapore has improved. anyway, i do know that the chinese place excessive value on being white, and take great pains to prevent their skin from getting the slightest tan (for girls) - the exception are those who are westernised and so follow western fashion trends. i have friends, in my country, of chinese ethnicity who used to complain that it was a pain going back to the hometown for chinese new year because they had to keep indoors for a few months before, so that their skin will recover its fairness in order to avoid being scolded by their grandma for being ‘dark’ or ‘black’. it was very annoying for the athletically-inclined girls, as i’m sure you can imagine.
i think chinese people are excessively proud of their own race and do consider themselves superior to others, and harp a great deal on their long civilisation, their focus on (chinese-centric) education and industriousness. like other nations that come to mind, they’d be admirable if they weren’t stuck up about it! i think almost every race is racist a little bit (by that i mean there’s at least a portion somewhere harbouring racist beliefs), as in stereotyping other races, being afraid of some, suspicious of others. but it gets serious when you honestly believe that the perceived ‘flaws’ of another race make them intrinsically lesser beings compared to your people. it’s a short hop from there to dehumanisation. of course, those who interact most with other races and step down their high horse to learn about others are not like that, as they are in any race and country. but, methinks the chinese high horse is very, very high indeed.
# 11|king says:
Racial prejudice is not unique to any particular race or society. It is often born out of ignorance and fear of outsiders. It exists simply because we want to be among our own kind, because we share a common culture, a common experience, a common belief, a common language, a common preference for food and many other things in life. This serves to maintain cohesion within a group, thereby improving the group’s chances of survival. For this reason, churches, temples, clubs, associations are the first things to be set up among migrant groups.
In a multi-racial society, barriers and prejudices among different races tend to break down, as different races get to know one another and as a new culture develops. Different races learn to be more tolerant, more accomodating, but within limits. As an example, in some Asian soceity, an Asian man might not consider marrying a white woman, simply because of differences in the outlook on marriage. Is that racism?
However, some prejudice would always exist, in any society. The important thing is whether there exists official discrimination based on one’s race. Would a black or coloured man have equal opportunities in a predominantly white society? Can a black or coloured person ever hope to become a president of a country?
# 12|Bernard says:
Despite the Sanlitun incident, I still firmly believe [and not because of my background] that most foreigners travel to China not thinking they would be beaten up on a random street in a random neighborhood. It’s just rarer compared to other places, especially Europe.
I’m a 24 year old Chinese American who will be visiting my fiancee in Poland in November. I’ve searched on the internet and although I’ve found numerous reports of verbal and physical harrassment in the streets. I’m rather fearful of what’ll happen when I walk down the street with my Polish fiancee. I’m fairly certain people will get confrontational, even if I was out without my fiancee or any other Polish women. I’m also somewhat certain someone will physically confront me at some point during my trip. The reports from Russia are much more grim.
It’s true that if your skin is darker than the locals in China, you will definitely face racism on a daily basis. There will definitely be the occasional verbal comments, differences in treatment in customer service and the like. But at the same time, the likelihood of being physically beaten remains rather low compared to other countries.
# 13|Jeremy says:
Hi Bernard,
That sucks about the violence in Poland and Russia. Protect yourself however you can, and good luck.
I completely agree with you - the chances of being beaten in the streets in China is very, very low (with the fairly rare exception of some sensitive periods - for example being Japanese near crowds during the trashing of stores a couple of years ago) - which makes the incident in Beijing all the more surprising. And the racism you do face in China is much more likely to be the behind the back variety than in your face verbal insults.
# 14|Kyle Burns says:
Can I ask the nationality and skin colour of the person that wrote this article. (please dont be offended).
# 15|Jeremy says:
Hey Kyle,
Pinkish American (none taken - what nationality and race we are definitely has a great influence on how we see the world)
# 16|London says:
I studied abroad in Beijing and can honestly say that racism is strong and present - moreso than anywhere I’ve ever been in my life. However, I think it has a lot to do with the person’s social standing.
I met Chinese people who were college educated and of higher class, they were as friendly as could be. Those who aren’t educated and are of lower-tier class tend to be the ones who are racist, from what I’ve noticed.
The only time I felt at home and safe in Beijing was when I was on the university campus, nobody looked at me as if I had two heads or was some sort of freak and everyone, for the most part was friendly.
When I was walking down Beijing streets, I was typically yelled at or laughed at by complete strangers on a regular basis.
# 17|Jeremy says:
Hey London,
I read through your last several entries at your blog and have to say it sucks that your experience in Beijing was not a good one on the whole, thanks to one too many ignorant (and racist) people outside of Beijing University.
If you really enjoyed Beijing University but hated the level of intolerance you ran into out in the streets, your best bet is to get to a place where people are more open and more tolerant. Maybe you could work your way toward Hong Kong. I know it’s a possibility that always hangs in the back of my mind if I could find a way to make it work financially / job wise.
# 18|lily says:
this is an interesting site. i am filipino/american and want to visit or maybe teach in china. but, i am worried about the racism i will face.
i experienced racism growing up in the u.s. and still do from time to time.
i have read about viloence against filipinos in china. is it worth it?
# 19|Ingramml says:
I spent three weeks in China last year and am on my way to Teach English. I only had one bad experience in China where i was in an alley and a woman hid behind her boy friend. I did get a few looks while walking around and a lot of dropped jaws when I spoke Chinese. Over all it was good but just be prepared for the staring and picture taking.
# 20|Jeremy says:
Hi Lily,
I have no idea about violence against Filipinos in China, I’ve never heard of this, but hopefully someone else can provide better advice.
Save up some money and travel all around China! You won’t regret traveling around China.
Or try and get a job with a multinational where they don’t care about what color your skin is - you’ll get paid far more than teaching anyway. But if you do teach, try to go for a reputable language school or University that will take you (many schools, stupid as it may be, insist on white faces).
I’d say you’ll be fine in a decent job or traveling around China - just don’t get stuck in a sub-par teaching job.
Also, ever thought about working in Taiwan or Hong Kong instead?
# 21|Catherine says:
I am a Chinese, and I don’t think the racism in china is a serious problem.
# 22|Merh says:
I am a Chinese, and I think what this thread said is quite true, but not so horrible as DAvon thought.
For example, “shouting HELLO to foreigners or starring at them” are not because of racsim.
As we know, China was locked and didn’t communicate with foreign countries for a long time in history. And even in the beginning of Republic of China was founded, Chinese people had a few of chances to meet foreigners. So if a foreigner appear in China, they would be very curious. ( They thought: Look! The man we can only see in TV now is nearby! )
Nowadys, because of the Reform and Opening up of China, more and more foreigners came to China, and more and more Chinese can be used to this phenomenon, but there are still many less-eduacted people feel curious when they see foreigner. @_@
However, I can understand what foreigners feel when they face such situations as you methioned in China….That’s not a good experience, right? >_
# 23|Jeremy says:
Hi Catherine and Merh,
Saying hello is more because of ignorance than racism - but do ask yourself how you would feel if people walked up to you in America or Europe and shouted 你好 to you after you had already walked by. You would probably see it as a little more than ignorance.
But the hello thing is not a serious problem. What is serious is the great number of very negative stereotypes against black people as well as the ingrained hatred of Japan and Japanese people that more than a few people in China hold. If this is not racism, I don’t know what is.
# 24|Andy says:
I agree with everything. But I doI find it interesting that many Chinese want to vacation in Africa. How many Americans would say the same? The racist, nationalist brainwashing that goes on to villify the Japanese is on par or perhaps above American orientalism toward middle easterners. Turn on the T.V. and flip around for an hour or so and you will very likely see Japanese soldiers carying off Chinese women to be raped in a “historical drama”. I don’t think Chinese whites, all of their models are foreigners. Find me a chinese male underwear model in China…its hard to do. Most of them are European. Still I have had people aim for me with their cars and I know another man from Australia that agrees with me and has half a bike to prove it.
I find it annoying when people stare, but when I see a redhead after three days of not seeing a foreigner, I stare too. I can’t help pointing with a slackjaw and saying “Lao Wai” I guess it just seems more festive.
# 25|Nadine says:
I find all the articles interesting and I am not surprised that there is racism in China or for that matter, anywhere else in the world against black people. I am a black Canadian living in Korea and racism is so evident here against foreigners but more so against blacks. Racism will always exist because of “the other”. I agree with the above article that commonality plays a huge role in people’s perception of others. China, Korea, India, Japan, and other Asian societies are so homogeneous that it would, in my opinion, be naive to think that racism does not exist.
# 26|Tunjii Mwamba says:
What should be most disturbing and is, for me at least, is the denial by Mac, that what was said about the US media is a cheap shot. Mac must be Caucasian. I say this because only a Caucasian or someone with severe mental denial could deny the obvious. Racism-White Supremacy is more than how one feels. It is how those Caucasians with power can control the thoughts of the people,thru what is shown in the media. There have numerous studies that have been done proving how the media shapes peoples’ thoughts and actions, about and against Backs and other races of people. You see, Racism is institutionalized ( set up, established ) in every fiber of society, in the United States and elsewhere; from the criminal justice system ( see Jena, Louisiana or Abu Heraima in New York, as examples ), housing, banking and loans, health care, educational system ( the facts of our contributions to Civilization, from the beginning of time to the present and denial of many Blacks getting quality edcation-college,etc. ); how Blacks are portrayed negatively in the media ( movies, television, the newsnad print media, etc. ). The Lynchings that taken place and continue threating us with .-See all of cases of Nooses being displayed in various places, in the United States. The People of the United States, especially Caucasians have very short memories and seem to forget or want to forget how they’ve treated and continue to treat Blacks, from our enslavement and continuing thru the present time, on a regular basis; Blacks helped build up this society, with their sweat and free labor for well over three hundred years, our ingeniuty, discovories, etc. These are facts that can’t, nor should they be ignored. For proof read these books, entitled (1) ” Blacks In Science: Ancient and Modern ” ed by Dr. Ivan Van Sertima (2) ” Nile Valley Civilizations ” ed by Dr. Ivan Van Sertima and (3)” Civilization Or Barbarism ” by Dr. Cheikh Anta Diop
# 27|warren says:
I am a Black ‘American’ and I’ve been teaching English for over six months in a variety of provinces in China. While I’ve shared some perjorative experiences, I have to say that I don’t see China as racist. They are prejudiced like every other group. China, I repeat, is not America. Chinese people are either cordial towards me or they simply stay out of my way. Keep in mind, China owes Black people nothing. Also, no matter where Black people go in the world we’ll always be seen as the lowest of the low because for the last 500 years we have been under European ownership. I actually wish that we harbored prejudices against other Ethnic groups (whites in particular) the way Chinese people do. This would ultimately give us a National identity and an immense love for Africa and independence. There is absolutely nothing inappropriate about Nationalism. I don’t care if Chinese people find me unappealing as I judge myself by Black standards. The only people that I need to love and bestow praise on me is African people…no one else. I have made a number of African friends here and I hear the exact same complaints. But we never seem to address why people see and treat us this way. Do we think that people should be nice to us just because? Or just because we’re Black? Is that how the world functions? This is not a Chinese problem, its an African problem. How can any Ethnic group respect us anyway? Look at us. The only way for us to not be seen as what everyone sees us as is to escape this socio-economic nightmare that we are ensared in. As Dr. Amos Wilson so lucidly put it, “We spend a lot of time trying to transform them but through transforming ourselves they will be transformed automatically.”
# 28|Kunle (艾琨) says:
Great post Tunjii Mwanba! There are way too many non-blacks out there who continue to be fed negative stereotypes about us Africans and Blacks. I actually believe it’s not entirely the media’s faulty. The target recipients of these news have come to a mental state in my opinion, in which they WANT and LOVE to hear negative stuff about blacks so as to feel vindicated about their prejudiced viewpoints and behaviour. It’s also a typical human fallibility that ‘if it doesn’t affect me, I don’t really care’ hence you can understand the indifference of the world-wide media and the general Chinese populace. It is positively reassuring and re-affirms innate human goodness when Caucasians, Asians and other non-blacks who have found this appalling, have made some efforts in whatsoever way, to bring this kind of news into the public domain. However, I must express something I strongly feel: I couldn’t care less if those found guilty through an independent, unbiased and fair system to have been supplying drugs at SanLiTun, were sent to the firing squad! These are the low-lifes who continue to feed the racist some kind of substance which can not be refuted. (A decent African/Black will never resort to a life of selling drugs no matter what situation he/she finds themselves). However, just AS IMPORTANT, the Chinese authorities involved in this indiscriminate targeting of blacks (with ingrained perception, Blacks males = most likely Drug smugglers) should answer for every person wrongly detained, beaten or arrested! Should be some independent inquiry and it is in fact RACIST and unprofessional to just target Black Males in the way reported.
Incidentally, there was an similar outcry by the resident Chinese recently in London Chinatown when a police raid was executed on many restaurants… they had intelligence that many illegal immigrants were operating there.
# 29|Andrea says:
Its human nature it seems to put others down to exalt one’s self. This indicates to me strongly that the one putting another down indeed has a feeling of low self-esteem and has no confidence in himself. If one is secure, there is no need for him or her to seek to belittle another. EVERY group has its good and bad points. There is no perfect person or group on the planet; nor has there ever been. People will always put themselves in the best light possible and very few of us have the wisdom or the courage to take a good look at ourselves in the mirror. I believe that everyone has a purpose and that everyone was created beautifully, just the way he or she is. After all, there are many people (I know this may be hard for some to believe) who do not find white skin attractive at all. We can find villains, murderers, thieves, liars, rapists, etc. in every group. Which group does not have these? Just as there are great, kind, gentle, compassionate, loving, giving people in every group. The Chinese are always reported to be wise, except in this one thing, they appear to be strongly lacking…another stereotype brought down. The one thing that I find disturbing around the world is that people are strongly persuaded by media images and hearsay. It would be great if people would start to think for themselves.
# 30|jiang says:
Well…An experience of mine maybe help. It happened about 20 years ago. At that time, I was 5 and had never seen forigners before. The only chances I saw forigners is from television. In the dramas, the police were white people and the rich man were white. The one who provided service were black guys and they were low-educated,rude and violent. At that time ,in my opinion, black people always fight with others. They sell some bad things(I had no idea on drugs at that time) and are always caught by policemen. The white people always rob banks. They kiss each other when a man sit with a women.They are polite and well-educated.
Then, my first trip to US was so forgivable. I sat beside a black on the airplane and I thought he would beat me.I cried and bit him at once. After landing, I screamed at the airport when I saw a white guy walked into a bank.
Does this sound ridiculous? It just happened.Now I know there are good people and bad people in every country. Couples kiss each other all over the world. Robbers are not only the white people.
Writing the above paragraph is just to say that the lack of information causes the racism. We judge people only from what we know, but what we know may not be true. A country with strong economics can use their goods,media and position to tell others what the truth is or what they think the truth is. The developing country haven’t got money to change the sterotypes. Some information are misleading and some are unacceptable because of culture or belief. These cause racism all the time without awareness. More communication can help a lot.
18 years ago, when I entered the elementry school, the regulation said：Don’t surround the forginers. This has been cancelled for many years. All the situation will be imporved with more communications.^__^
# 31|le says:
i have read these posts can tell you asa older black male here in america that travels and lives in some asian and europe, i can say the chinese the world over are racist..but i have can say i have good chinese friends and even ladies that are friends and even lovers.Most chinese are like most with little contact and all they know is from Tv and what other racist/bigoted foreigners tell them and that they feel inferior in most ways to others especially in sports[black people have dominated in most sports!] and westernization and technology and way their own country has let them down in terms of “superiority in race and culture” to the rest of world! In Thailand the chinese[same ethnic Han] predominate and have spread their own brand of “racism” and “racist/prejudical beliefs” and even have the Thai and others{cambodians/laotions/burmese] as less [far less] then they are! the chinese have a belief that dark skin is for the “field hands” and poor peasents, and that african and african-americans, and black people no matter where they are are considered “the earth people ” they are certainly as racist and ignorant and stupid acting the world ove just as the Koreans are[the worst!] and some what the japanese..but vietnamese is more open-minded then these others asia countries i ahve experienced..but do not have a half black/half viet child there as the prejudice[another southern ethnic chinese leftover!] is still in effect. having said the negative, it is harde but teaching and making lasting friendships[when they really get to know you!] can be quite rewarding and the old prejudices and fears are just that most think deep down they are inferior..hence the chinese “western moderations” to the society and military. NOw they “help” develope Africa and the africans see all the chinese “good will” for what it is…just making profit and using others for the great chinese “dragon”. It dones not help when all western nations help chinese and communist china[and asia for that matter!]to development of their infrastructures and moderizations and leave Africa and the other darker skinned people of color out!It It will take a while before China and the chinese people begin to think for themselves and wake up to their own shortcomings and misgivings and like most developing countries..come to grips with who and what they are and become a part of the 21st centary.
# 32|Nadine says:
The writers of the most 6 recent articles all have some excellent viewpoints. I am saddened by the fact that contributions by black people seems to have been lost in history. When the accomplishments of the Ancient Egyptians are taught in schools, it is taught as if the Ancient Egyptians are separate from the black Africans that lived in Egypt at that time (at least in my school). People need to find their own knowledge because a lot of history is not taught in schools. History is taught from the perspective of the conqueror. According to a study entitled “The Human Genome Project”, (google for further info)the earliest Chinese people originated from Africa. Dr. Nana Banchie Darkwah addresses this as well as other issues in his book entitled “The Africans Who Wrote the Bible”. In my opinion, ignorance breeds ignorance. As stated in one of the articles, there are good and bad people in every race, so why be racist especially when there is proof that your ancestors originated from the very people you are racist against.
# 33|Bernard says:
I need to respond. Andrea, I don’t know where you get your information, but the Chinese are not portrayed as ‘wise’, at least not in the U.S. As a matter of fact, in America there are no positive portrayals of Chinese people [and Asians in general, as an offshoot] at ALL. Instead, we have everything ranging from the inept and nerdy [William Hung, a la American Idol] to the sniveling and scheming [Wen Ho Lee, falsely accused of giving nuclear secrets to Beijing, despite the fact that he’s from Taiwan! - those who know the current political situation in that area will understand the ridiculousness] to downright evil and money-hungry [watch CNN’s Lou Dobbs show 6PM EST every weeknight].
Jiang, I suppose yours is an unusual case, but you do highlight an important point about lack of information. However, its not so much a lack of information as it is a distortion* and partial* information that breeds discrimination. Choosing to report only certain facts will definitely result in misconceptions.
le, I’m assuming you’re from Southeast Asia, probably Vietnam. In recent news stories, there have been reports of Malaysian hotel workers making obscene comments to Chinese tourists and drawing on their itineraries the image of a pig, and calling them “Chinese pigs”. In Indonesia, hundreds [maybe thousands] of Chinese immigrants were killed in the upheavals of the 1960s [much like the European attitude towards Jews - the Indonesians felt the Chinese immigrants somehow, somewhere, controlled all the money and hence all the power]. And I’m willing to bet blacks will treated just as poorly in Vietnam as anywhere else in Asia. If you’re already discriminatory against your Chinese neighbors, there’s no bound for discrimination against other people.
Nadine, ancient Egypt was indeed a mix of Egyptians, Arabs from North Africa and Mesopotamia, and blacks from the interior of the continent. But that did not make Egypt a ‘black’ country. Just because they constituted a portion of the population didn’t mean they were the rulers. Just think about how racism is like in America - is America a white country or a black country, in your opinion?
We’ve all concentrated our efforts on how we are all the same - every group has its racists, its non-racists. But what we haven’t focused on are our differences - racism comes in many forms, and certain cultures are bound to lean towards certain types of racism. Some cultures are outright militant [KKK, neo-Nazis, Black Panthers], other cultures are not as quick to resort to violence, although individuals may, from time to time, take it upon themselves to kill foreigners because they are physically different.
To blacks who wish to teach English in East Asia, I recommend Taiwan. Recently there have been more diplomatic relations with African countries and its far less likely there for violence. But wherever you go in Asia [and the world in general], its best to 1. Make friends and travel with them outdoors whenever possible. 2. Be as polite as possible. 3. Remember, you are ultimately a guest.
That’s what I plan to do when I visit Poland next week.
# 34|Bernard says:
Jeremy, I think [I hope not] my post just got deleted just after being up for an hour or so. I hope you’re not practicing any kind of censorship.
# 35|Tunjii Mwamba says:
This response is to Bernard.
Here some of these reasons that you are wrong in regard to whether or not the ancient Egyptians were Black. Read these books for clarification: ” The Histories, Book Two” 104-107 pp 121 &122, ” The African Origin of Civilization: Myth or Reality ” by Dr. Cheikh Anta Diop, ” Civilization or Barbarism ” by Dr. Cheikh Anta Diop , ” Africa: Mother of Civilization ” by Dr. Yosef Ben Jochannan , ” Echoes of The Old Dark Land ” by Dr. Charles Finch , The Destruction Of Black Civilization: Great Issues Of A Race, from 4500-B.C.-2000 A.D. ” by Dr. Chancellor Williams . Also Egypt is and always has been in Afrika-The Land Of The Blacks. Even the indigenous name for Egypt ( Kemit ) means The Black Nation or Country. It does not mean the Black Land as some would have you believe, because the symbol for land is never written in the word Kemit-never. Also, look at the Pharaohs themselves and study the origin of where these rulers and the lineage come from and you’ll see they came from the interior of Afrika. Finally, On the display in the London Museum can read ” The Papyrus of Hunefer ” which says They came from The foothills of the Mountains of The Moon. ” There are only two places in Afrika with such a name- Kilamanjaro and Rwenzuri. These are the sources of the Blue Nile and the White Nile . There is more but I haven’t the time to expound further. So do you own research and you’ll see where you are wrong. Olatunji Mwamba
# 36|le says:
i may need to clarify some points about my post[and please forgive my misspelling and grammarical errors in my first post to this forum!] to bernard i must say first of all, i am a AFRO-american[african-american/black to all those who wish to label me with a racial heritage designation] and that yes i have travelled and visited and have close and as well as casual dealing with mainly Asia and European ex -Soviet block nations such as Kyrgyzstan[kirghizstan] Ubekistan, Kazakhstan, and Turkemenistan, Latvia, Poland ect…so these are MY opinions and observations and such the conclusions i have come to. as most i treat all as individuals…but one cannot totally nor want to..escape their societal enviroment and NOT take from it both the good and bad and the ignorant and the sad! All i can say is listen to YOURSELF 1st..and research and find out what you can and listen to other forum and group members so as to NOT be a total disadvantage nor constant frustrations about a people and the society! as we branch out to other places we find we are the same in some ways…others…totally another culture and mindset..and yes sterotypes and groups do exist.. we can learn and be good hosts and polite..but this will not change at all the misperceptions and ideas that many may hold negative if we do NOT challenge and combat those ideas..or those that believe and propagate the negative “press” and such..just keep on going and still passing it on… that is why the black civilizations that seem to start it all and have done well…BUT now especially vilifed and even condemed!you must ask yourself as why they[african/black/afro-americans/carribean/west indies blacks haitians/dominicians] are now considered in the very worse light and the people either terrible or even invisible, when except the most negative things come to light.Most like rap and hip-hop but not out race and not the music and culture as wel as the spiritualty, and our own style that brought these to world..as well as acutally stealing and “forgetting” that some technology and ways of doing things are from “Motherafrica”! there are some good reference books that i think are good reading and will and can help those who seek..come to their own conclusions based on historical data and reference points. Here they are:”THE DESTRUCTION OF THE BLACK CIVILAZATION”[AUTHOR=CHANCELLOR WILLAIMS], “AN UNDERGROUND EDUCATION”[AUTHOR=RICHARD ZACKS],”LIES ACROSS AMERICA”[AUTHOR=JAMES W. LOEWEN],”LIES MY TEACHER TOLD ME”[AUTHOR=JAMES W. LOEWEN],”THE HISTORY OF THE CHINESE IN AMERICA”[AUTHOR=IRIS CHANG[a good frined before her passing by sucide], “THE NANKING MASSACRE”[AUTHOR=IRIS CHANG] and many others that i will not bore others to list. So wish you a good trip to Poland but be wary and warned as to your “reception” there Bernard! and good luck and please share your obversations too and maybe we can swap stories here and try to get aways from Krakow! and keep safe!
# 37|le says:
i may need to clarify some points about my post[and please forgive my misspelling and grammarical errors in my first post to this forum!] to bernard i must say first of all, i am a AFRO-american[african-american/black to all those who wish to label me with a racial heritage designation] and that yes i have travelled and visited and have close and as well as casual dealing with mainly Asia and European ex -Soviet block nations such as Kyrgyzstan[kirghizstan] Ubekistan, Kazakhstan, and Turkemenistan, Latvia, Poland ect…so these are MY opinions and observations and such the conclusions i have come to. as most i treat all as individuals…but one cannot totally nor want to..escape their societal enviroment and NOT take from it both the good and bad and the ignorant and the sad! All i can say is listen to YOURSELF 1st..and research and find out what you can and listen to other forum and group members so as to NOT be a total disadvantage nor constant frustrations about a people and the society! as we branch out to other places we find we are the same in some ways…others…totally another culture and mindset..and yes sterotypes and groups do exist.. we can learn and be good hosts and polite..but this will not change at all the misperceptions and ideas that many may hold negative if we do NOT challenge and combat those ideas..or those that believe and propagate the negative “press” and such..just keep on going and still passing it on… that is why the black civilizations that seem to start it all and have done well…BUT now especially vilifed and even condemed!you must ask yourself as why they[african/black/afro-americans/carribean/west indies blacks haitians/dominicians] are now considered in the very worse light and the people either terrible or even invisible, when except the most negative things come to light.Most like rap and hip-hop. blues, even classical and literture and but not our race for people, and not the music and culture as well as the spiritualty, and our own style that brought these to world..as well as acutally stealing and “forgetting” that some technology and ways of doing things are from “Motherafrica”! there are some good reference books that i think are good reading and will and can help those who seek..come to their own conclusions based on historical data and reference points. Here they are:”THE DESTRUCTION OF THE BLACK CIVILAZATION”[AUTHOR=CHANCELLOR WILLAIMS], “AN UNDERGROUND EDUCATION”[AUTHOR=RICHARD ZACKS],”LIES ACROSS AMERICA”[AUTHOR=JAMES W. LOEWEN],”LIES MY TEACHER TOLD ME”[AUTHOR=JAMES W. LOEWEN],”THE HISTORY OF THE CHINESE IN AMERICA”[AUTHOR=IRIS CHANG[a good frined before her passing by sucide], “THE NANKING MASSACRE”[AUTHOR=IRIS CHANG] and many others that i will not bore others to list. So wish you a good trip to Poland but be wary and warned as to your “reception” there Bernard! and good luck and please share your obversations too and maybe we can swap stories here and try to get aways from Krakow! and keep safe!
# 38|le says:
This is to Nadine:”EXCELLENT AND RIGHT ON”[SPOT ON for those in the UK and Australia!] as what she has said has a great impact and message for all here, and should be followed up and researched and spread to others this VERY important message!
# 39|Nadine says:
Bernard: Thank you for your response. Please note that in my article I did not say that Egypt was a black country. However, it did start out that way. I must remind you that the Pharoahs of Ancient Egypt were black and yes they were the rulers. (See Civilization or Barbarism by Cheikh Anta Diop) When the Caucasians went to Egypt from Europe, they mixed with the blacks and that’s where Arabs came from. Whichever way you look at it, black people were the first inhabitants and rulers of Egypt. America is a struggling melting pot. Hello Le and thank you.
# 40|Tunjii Mwamba says:
We must have a clear understanding of what is
” Racism-White Supremacy ” . I’ll give you two quotes by Neely Fuller Jr. who has said, (1) ” If you don’t understand ‘Racism-White Supremacy’ , what it is and how it works, everything you think you understand, will only confuse you. (2) ” The only functioning Racism among people in the known universe is White Supremacy.” In other words, unless it is functioning and impacting the real world, it has no real relevance . How Black people feel about Caucasians or Chinese, for that matter, has little consequence upon the real world. We can’t be racists because you must have power to institutionalize the idea into a reality. It must impact peoples lives. We don’t have power to effect the vast majority of Caucasians or Chinese lives, in the negative. How does how I feel about Caucasians, impact their lives ? Then ask yourself this question: How does how a Caucasian feels about you, impact your life ? From this, you should have your answer. Until the facts of history are known by everyone, and taught this will continue.
Olatunji Mwamba
# 41|MAMA JAMILA says:
My young sisters and brothers, continue to study and dialouge. le your information is correct, continue to share with the world. My Chinese sisters and brothers there is a problem regarding racism in China. I have friends who travel the world, and their experiences in China were extremely negative. They were mis-directed, misinformed, and insulted everywhere they visited (my friends are African American, Haitian, mature women,-teachers and social workers-women). The western media continues to shed light on the most negative aspects of African and African American issues-that is another problem we have to address immediately! Every person in the world can trace their very existence back to the Motherland of all humanity-Africa! According to the latest scientific DNA technology and archaeological evidence, ALL CIVILIZATIONS, INCLUDING CHINA WERE AFRICAN IN THE BEGINNING! AFRICAN PEOPLE ARE THE INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF THE WORLD! The ignorance that prevails throughout the world regarding “race” (lighter skin is better), is a direct result of historic Western European’s quest to conquer, exploit, and oppress the world. The more
you resembled the conqueror the more you were favored.This is the theme that exists throughout history wherever Western Europeans dominated. This has to be acknowledged, apologies must be made, reparations must be paid.
# 42|Tunjii Mwamba says:
What is dangerous, is for us to discuss only where humanity came from, while not discussing the fact that civilization also started there. To add to my earlier post, and expounding on same;Let me define further for you, ” The Papyrus of Hunefer ” which says, ” We came from the beginning of the Nile, at the foothills of the Mountains of the Moon, where Hapi dwells.” As I said earlier, at the beginning of the Nile, there are two Niles; The Blue, in Ethiopia and bording Kenya and the second ( at the foothills of Kilamanjaro); and Uganda at the foothills of Rwenzuri . Both Mountains correctly defined mean, ” Mountain of the Moon ” . That is how the local people of both areas descibe each of these Mountains. Because at night it looks like the Mountain is touching the Moon, hence the name I described to you earlier. The Nile flows towards the Merranean Sea and not vice versa, it then unites at the City of Khartoum, in the Sudan and becomes one Nile, and then flows towards and empties at the Merranean sea. So you can see that what the ancient Egyptians ( Kemitians )were saying is that their ancestors came from the interior of Afrika. In addition,every time there was political upheaval, the royal family always migrated back to the South, in Nubia. Why would they do that if they were from Western Asia ( so-called Middle east )? Every time there was a push for unification ( the two lands Ta-Wi- Upper and Lower Egypt ), it always came from the South. Furthermore the Arabs don’t even enter Egypt until 640 A.D. (A.C.E.). As Dr.John Henrik Clarke would say, Egypt was old and tired by this time. Remember, Egypt has been the main ruling power on the planet for more Ten thousand years, and spread much of its technological prowess to other lands. As is often the case, race mixing, although never wide spread, began in earnest with the Assyrians in 671 B.C. (B.C.E.), then the Persians in 525 B.C. (B.C.E.), then the Greeks in 332 B.C(B.C.E.) and then the Romans in 32 B.C. (B.C.E.), finally the Arabs in 640 A.D. Howvever, when the Greek Herodutus enters Egytp in circa 500 B.C. he describes the people he sees, as having Black skins, wide, fleshy lips, and wooly hair, and says further, that these people practiced circumcision since times so far back, no one knows when it started. Finally in the southern part of Egyptian you can still find the orginal people still living there. They are Nubians .As I said in my earlier post,Black people, be they from the Western hemisphere or from Afrika, must begin the process of studying our story, as written by the truth tellers ; Our Afrikan Centered Scholars, such Dr. Diop, Dr. ‘Ben’ , Dr. Clarke, Dr. Finch, Dr. Van Sertima, Dr. Obenga and others, who’ve done the research. Let us continue to study our story. Peace, Tunjii
# 43|Tunjii Mwamba says:
I’d also, like to clarify a term I read and hear all too often- the Middle East. What is the Middle east ? Correct me if I’m wrong, but based upon zero latitutde and zero longitude, the Center of the Earth is off the coast of Ghana, in the gulf of Guinea. So, again I ask what is the Middle East ? If we apply precision, we must all agree that this is the most Western point of Asia. Now there is another problem, is Europe( which is named after Princess Europa, a Black women see ” The Illiad and The Odyssey ” )a continent ? Well based upon the definition I was taught in school, a continent is a large body of land, surrounded by a large body of water. Is Europe surrounded by water? Absolutely not. So Europe is really a part of Asia. Hence, it becomes much easier to understand and see it right in front of us, that in the word Caucasian, is the word Asia. This is because they come from the Caucasus Mountains, in North Western Asia. Just more food for thought. Tunjii
# 44|Nadine says:
You are absolutely correct Tunjii. There is so much of history that is not being taught. So much has been changed so as not to be associated with Africa. Religion was started by the Ancient Egyptians as well. Has anyone ever questioned where the bible truly came from? I have never been to Spain but I understand that is where you can still see images of the black madonna (aka The Virgin Mary). The root of institutionalized racism can be traced back to the church and it spread to the academic world. Thanks to Tunjii and Le for the book referrals. Some of them I have not heard of so please let me know of others you may have read.
# 45|Le says:
I wish to first[1st] say that there is incredible and vast knowledge as the posters here…with my best[in my opinion] with Nadine and Mr.Mwamba, with much insight to miss Jiang as well. I do suggest that one look at history to verify much to validate and display a truth that the “conquerers and victors of the world”[thru all the worst forms of violence, torture and genocide]which is mainly Eurocentric do NOT want the people of the world to know… as to know gives one courage and a background “pride” and a knowledge of self worth and importance as well to know that ALL earlier humanity..has brought about changes that no “blond haired/blue eyed” person[that goes for chinese too!] could have never done! but since is about china and the chinse racism, i can see that the caucasians are not the only to “institutionalize” and “internalize” most misconceptions and ignorances and bigotries and downright hatred of other peoples, especially the black people. IF you look towards history Asia was essentially like europeans with outlooks and unlike europe..tried to isolate and close itself off,[I.e= Admiral Peary and the black ships to japan/columbus/spain with spice and silk routes] while europeans tried to secure routes to keep their countries[aristocracy/oligarchs] in power…and that is the way china as done these thousands or years with the Eastern Han, to the Qing and Wu Dynasties, this thinking continues. If you notice here today…alot of the world blames “foreigners” for the troubles..but do not say in Asia what the “foreigners” are…but they are quick to say that blacks[and darker skinned people, whether other Asians/ethnicities in the world[or their own countries!] are a great cause of it..even though in their countries most european causasians and the like…still are causing the troubles and the trodding of the locals populance….they still look and imitate and validate and even glorify the “white”, and even look to them as equal or even superiour, while at the same time being carrying the worst forms of “xenophobia” and “intolerances. This type of thinking is what most must be careful of…and it will not help with many in the power structure[s] that know better…keeping propogating this racist/prejudical/bigoted drivel and misconceptions as well! I think conversations like this forum and input[thank you internet!] will broaden and define most peoples conceptions and even turn those who chose to ignore the truth and even to sit by to do some thing to challege and even change views and even institutions. more later…[as i have more to say on confronting and input from the lands and people i visited in the past to now, to what postive/negative things i have seen and experienced!] now if you wish to see what China and the people and infrastructure is like and becoming like..take a look at China today magazine[in english] at this link: http://www.chinatoday.com.cn/ so you can see what is going on and what is not and i hope this will show that some of china is very good for even teaching and check out this teacher there too. His name is Luc Bendza and he teaches Wushu and learns {kung-fu]and is a foreign student as well! Mr.Bendza has been in china for about 23years now. He has graduated from Beijing’s sports univeristy And he is a film actor. and i beleive he from Gabon in Africa! I am hoping to meet up with him and will be leaving next year to Shenzhen china and Yunnan Beijiang so i will see and renforce what i exspect and think and i hope i am wrong! ;-( And thank you Miss Nadine and Hello and keep on with your very fine great and insightful posts! 
and please…do not forget the Queens of Africa too!
# 46|Tunjii Mwamba says:
Oh, by the way, the first two dynasties in China were Zjia and the Zjang both were Black dynasties.So , I wonder how the Chinese have forgotten our contributions to them. Much of the spiritual, cultural and philosphical thought comes from us. You can read about this is these books : ” The African presence in early Asia ” by Dr. Ivan Van Sertima and Classical African Civilizations by Runoko Rashidi . Tunjii
# 47|Le says:
bye the way did my earlier post get deleted jeremy?
Le - I don’t think so - it probably just got caught up in moderation because of a link - Jeremy
# 48|Tunjii says:
This post is to Bernard. I wish you’d analyze what I’ve said about Racism, 11/01/07 @9:20 PM . You seem confused about the difference between a Racist and a Bigot. A Bigot is one who thinks his race is superior to all other races, but he has no power to intitutionalize it into a reality. When you speak about the Klan, they are nothing but a symptom of Racism, because they are allowed to impose their will upon those Blacks they’ve encountered. However, the main difference between a Racist and a Bigot are that the former controls all of the machinisms necessary , that imposes this idea into a reality i.e. The Media( print, rado, television, movies, etc.) , Education-schools the denial of the true facts of history, the denial of proper educations for all of the United States ‘Citizens’ etc. The imbalance in the criminal justice system, health care, Banking and loans to start businesses, Mortgages,and I could go on and on,but you get the picture. For instance, do you know that twice , Afrikans have taught Caucasians all the sciences, math, arts, philosophy, etc. Those two times are when the Greeks came to study amongst us in Egypt and the second time was when the Moors, who were Black conquered and ruled Spain from 711 A.D.-1492 A.D. During this time, The Moors built many of the cities of Spain,including Toledo and Granada, built the first university in Europe- The University of Salamanca. They built public baths because the Spaniards didn’t have good hygiene and taught them how to make soap. The Moors taught them how to navigate the seas, how to spice their food and so much more. So Bernard, please stop referring to those fools who are nothing more than bigots, as racists, because are not racists. Take a good look at my post from November 1, 2007@ 9:20 PM for clarification and proper definitions of Racism. By adopting their definitions of what is a Racist, we let them off the hook, for all they’ve done and continue to do to us. Tell me one place on this earth where have Caucasians gone in Peace ? They have brought nothing but destruction wherever they have gone. History don’t lie. I’ll end this post by quoting Malcolm X who said, ” Of all of our studies, history is best qualified to reward our research.” Tunjii
# 49|Tunjii Mwamba says:
This post is for Nadine, who requested that I and others give a suggested list of books to read. This is in addition to the ones I suggested on my earlier posts.
” We-The Black Jews ” by Dr. Yosef Ben Jochannan, ” The Deceiving Of The Black Race ” by Moses Farrar, ” Nile Valley Civilizations ” ed by Dr. Ivan Van Sertima, ” Nile Valley Contributions to Civilization ” by Tony Browder, ” Two Nations: Hostile, Black, White, Separate, and Unequal ” by Dr. Andrew Hacker, ” The Heart Of Whiteness: Confronting Race, Racism, and White Privilege ” by Robert Jensen, ” 100 years Of Lynchings ” by Ralph Ginburg, ” None Dare Call It Conspiracy ” by Gary Allen, ” America’s Secret Establishment:An Introduction To The Order Of The Skull And Bones ” by Antony C. Sutton, ” The Federal Reserve Conspiracy ” by Antony C. Sutton . You can purchase all of these books, as well as those alluded to above by mail at
” Everyone’s Place ” 1356 W. North ave. Baltimore, Maryland, The United States Of America, 21217 410-728-0877
# 50|Tunjii Mwamba says:
Isn’t it odd, how people who belong to a certain group, will say I’m Chinese for instance, I didn’t notice any discrimination in China. Of course you would’nt notice it, you’re Chinese. You’d have to belong to one of those other groups to notice and fell what they feel. The sad thing in all of this, is the fact that this is exactly what Caucasians say in the United States- I didn’t notice anything. That’s because you take your skin color for granted and so there are certain situations, that would probably go unnoticed by you. Experience is the best teacher. You have to have been there. It’s like when we Blacks in America see a noose hung anywhere, it has a decidely different effect upon us, as opposed to a Caucasian. This is because he hasn’t been lynched or threatened with being lynched, or had a family member lynched, etc. There have been thousands of Black people lynched between the late 1880’s and 1960. Read the book entitled ” 100 Years Of Lynchings ” by Ralph Ginsburg . Tunjii Mwamba
# 51|Nadine says:
Thank you Tunjii. Have you or anyone else heard of a book call Leviathan 666. I heard about it but I have never been able to find this book.
# 52|Tunjii Mwamba says:
This post is for Nadine, Yes I’ve heard of the book, but I’ve not read it. I think it has something to do with the coming ” New World Order ” . You should be able to purchase this book, along with others I’ve mentioned on my posts at the the address I’ve listed. Peace, Tunjii
# 53|Nadine says:
I think some Caucasians in the United States know when minorities are treated unfairly but they just don’t want to deal with it so they pretend not to notice, especially when it involves blacks. It easier to turn away. There will always be a minority group at the bottom of the barrel. The stigma of slavery just made it easier to keep blacks there. No group wants to be at the bottom so Caucasians are at the top, blacks are somewhere near the bottom and everyone else is fighting for second place.
# 54|Tunjii says:
This post is for Nadine, You correct, some Caucasians do understand discrimination when they see. However, what many people to see or understand is the difference between those in Power and those who are powerless. So what they wind up doing is somehow, equating how one feels, with the power to actually act make it effectual in people’s lives. We must understand the dynamics of power. Everywhere on this planet where Blacks and Caucasians occupy the same space, Blacks are always on the bottom. That can’t be an accident. This has to be planned for. You can go to Arabia, India, Brazil, Venezuela, etc. and it is always the same dynamic of Power. A great writer, Bobby Wright said, ” Power is the ability to define reality and to have others accept that reality as if it were their own.”
Tunjii Mwamba
# 55|jon says:
“The closest literal translation for Africa in Chinese means “non-state” or “not a state””
are you sure africa(feizhou) in mandarin chinese means non state. europe is called ouzhou.
i thought the “fei” in feizhou, meant “fly/plane”
# 56|Kodjo says:
Jon is right. fly or plane correspond to another character (飞), this is not the same as the “fei” of Africa (非).
# 57|Jeremy says:
Hi Jon,
非 usually means not or non, when paired with a noun. There are other meanings, but if you knew many other words in Chinese and not Africa you may well guess that Africa means “non-state” or “not a state” Here are some other words that use the “非” in 非洲：
非常 (extraordinary, unusual, special -> not usual)
非法 (illegal -> not legal)
非凡 (outstanding -> not ordinary)
非金属 （nonmetal -> not metal)
非军事 （non-military)
非卖品 (not for sale article)
I could go on but you probably get the point. I’m not saying it ‘means’ non-state. It means Africa, of course, it’s just the connotations are not nice. Contrast it with America, which breaks down to “Beautiful Country”, and you get my point.
Kodjo,
Jon is saying that the “fei” in 非洲 means plane - so you are correct with the distinction but he is not.
# 58|nana says:
Hey guys,
I have lived in Shanghai with my family for 7years. RACISM EXISTS IN CHINA! Whoever is saying it does not is either a local ineducated chinese or a non-black person!!! I am black and I know what I am talking about. You like it or not, racism is a global and real issue. The only place a black person is not judged by its skin color is AFRICA! In Africa, no one is going to look at your dark skin and automatically assume that you are not SMART, not enough,…
My message to my fellow black people: WAKE UP BROTHERS AND SISTERS, THIS IS NOT GOING AWAY, IT IS EVEN GETTING WORSE!!! You have to learn how to live with it and mostly how to NOT LET IT AFFECT WHO YOU ARE. I know it sound impossible and difficult, but what do you gonna do? I was born and raised in Africa until 18years old,then I went to Usa for 8years and now I am in China,. For me, it was hard at first but now I see it as that is the way it is. But the thing is, NO ONE CAN COME TO ME AND TELL ME WHAT I CAN OR CAN NOT DO, when I came here, I already knew who i was, contrary to people who have to go through racism since there are born, it just shapes who you are. Everyday, we have to put up with looks when we are driving our car around, people will stare, point fingers… and the funniest thing most of them do is to look at our car plate number to see if it is a car for an embassy (THAT WOULD BE THE ONLY LOGICAL EXPLANATION FOR US TO HAVE A CAR). I am just concerned about my kids who will grow up in this world, it will be hard to be themselves, they will likely be what the society tells them they are.
# 59|Simon says:
racism in China? Euh~~it s somewhat reasonable…
the whites, hairy, rough skin…
the blacks, “black”, somewhat idiot, aggressive, violent…
the arabs, islam…
the southern asian, traditional barbers…
….
# 60|Jeremy says:
Dude (Simon), that’s just plain ignorant. Though you’re trying to be ‘equal’ by saying ‘bad’ things against several groups of people, you didn’t say anything racist against white people.
You said racist things against black people, implied racist things against people in the middle east (by implying that all of Islam is a bad thing), and I don’t know what the heck you were thinking with your comment about South Asians (do you see Indian people giving haircuts everywhere around the world?? Idiot).
# 61|Simon says:
if u live in China, you shall know a bit of chinese culture, they are racist since the birth.
i suppose u r not chinese. in fact, we know well the reputation of blacks and arabs in the west. moreover, i dont know indians are asian?! south asians are thais, malais, etc. got it? 3Q!
# 62|Tunjii says:
This post is to Simon. You must be Caucasian because you have posted some of the most ignorant ideas, many totally incoherent or unclear. If you want to sound intelligent, you must make intelligent statements. As I’ve said many times,one must be clear and correct, and this can only be done with correct information and analysis of that information. You must know the facts of history, as well as current events. You must read more. Here are some books that might clear up your ignorance: (1)” Civilization Or Barbarism ” by Dr. Cheikh Anta Diop (2) ” Blacks In Science: Ancient And Modern ” ed by Dr. Ivan Van Sertima (3) ” Nile Valley Contributions To Civilization ” by Anthony Browder
(4) ” Egypt Revisited ” ed by Dr. Ivan Van Sertima (5) ” Nile Valley Civilizations ” ed by Dr. Ivan Van Sertima (6) ” The Moors Of Spain ” by Stanley Poole
(7) ” The Golden Age Of The Moors ” by Dr. Ivan Van Sertima (8) ” They Came Before Columbus ” by Dr. Ivan Van Sertima
(9) ” None Dare Call It Conspiracy ” by Gary Allen
(10) ” Amercia’s Secret Establishment: An Introduction Into The Order Of The Skull And Bones ” by Antony C. Sutton (11) ” The Federal Reserve Conspiracy ” by Antony C. Sutton (13) The Rockefeller Files ” by Antony C. Sutton
(14) ” Behold A Pale Horse ” by william Cooper
(14) ” Two Nations: Hostile, Black, White, Separate And Unequal ” by Dr. Andrew Hacker . These books should keep you busy re-educating your ignorant mind of all the falshoods you’ve been brainwashed to believe to be true.
# 63|Simon says:
ok, i ve got some infos. about this issue, it s time to stop. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2b/National_IQ_Lynn_Vanhanen_2006_IQ_and_Global_Inequality.png
if u can have some time, see it. it s obvious.
# 64|Tunjii says:
It’s obvious, you still don’t get, Simon. The National IQ study is done to supposedly prove that Caucasians are more intelligent than Backs and other races. This is one of the biggest fallacies ever perpetrated upon the Human race. There is no difference between the races, as far as intelligence is concerned. If that were so, how could Blacks have built perhaps, the most advance Civilization known to man, that of the Nile Valley - Ta-Nehisi
( misnomered Ethiopia ), Ta-Seti ( also known as Nubia ) and Ta-Merry or Kemit ( misnomered Egypt by the Greeks )? And if you do some research, you’ll find that I’m correct on this issue. All three of these Nations are nothing more than extentions of each other. One coming from the other, following the couse of the Nile. For the Egyptians have told us in ” The Papyrus Of Hunefer ” : ” We came from the beginning of the Nile , at the foothills of the Mountains of the Moon, where Hapi dwells.” I’ve explain this document before. If you read one of my earlier posts you’ll understand what this important document says about the origin of the ancient Egyptians ( Kemites ) and why this document is so important. There was also, a great ancient Civilization in the Southern part of Afrika called Monomotapa, where the oldest iron smelting plants( over 40,000 years old ) have been found. However,it’s more than obvious that you’re afraid to face facts of history. You need to stop trying to quote that psuedo science, you’ve been quoting and honestly look at the facts. Read the books I’ve suggested to you, then get back to me.
# 65|Tunjii says:
What I’ve experienced when having discussions with people such as Simon, is an honest lack of integrity, when discussing the facts of history, as regards to Black people and their contributions to Civilization in ancient times, as well as bringing integrity to discussion of sytemic, Institutional Racism and White World Supremacy. More often than not, they act like children, because ” They want what other people have, think they can’t do without, and aren’t willing to pay for.” This is why they can justify, in the own minds, the taking of othe peoples’ lands and natural resources without just and honest compensation for same. It’s also why they can feel no remorse in the killing people to acquire these things, along with the power to control those peoples’ lives and land. But I didn’t expect him to bring integrity to the discussion in the first place. He has shown, for those who can see, how childish and immature he is, as well as how ignorant he is to the facts of history and current events and the inhumane treatment of other races of the human species by his own people. Just look at how they treated the indigenous people of the Americas, Australia, as well as Afrika. These are facts -pure and simple. You can’t deny the undeniable. They have annihilated most of the indigenous people of America and Australia and have tried to annihilate the people of Afrika. These are facts. However, I know you won’t admit to this because then you’d see the obvious. How cunning and evil Caucasians are. These are the acts of devils. Most assuredly they are not the acts of human beings.
# 66|Nadine says:
Simon: Where are you getting your information? Don’t believe everything you see on T.V. or you hear on the news. A lot of these media organizations are biased.
Stop trying to justify racism in China and just admit that a lot of the Chinese in China are ignorant when it comes to the outside world.
Please take the advice given to you on this website and read those books. Ignorance is bliss.
# 67|Phil Tanner says:
I’m a 29 year old white english man cycling alone from North to South China at the moment ,as part of a world tour.
I have travelled widely and am very aware to keep smiling and maintain a passive and friendly body langauge. However I’ve been most upset recently as street noodle sellers and restaurants have agressively refused to serve me because clearly I’m a westerner. I felt a horrid tension brew in these cases as my legs fill with adrenalin.
These cases have been in poor rural towns and have been pleased to pedal away from these nasty folk.
I have to say overall the Chinese have been friendly even though I feel like the Elephant Man when I go out for a walk. This of course is merely curiousity and not racism.
I’ve never experienced racism before and wonder if any other white westerners have experienced similar cases in rural areas where you have no identity.
Phil
# 68|Tunjii says:
This post is to Phil, What you are describing in what you’ve never experienced, is not Racism, that is prejudice. There is a huge difference between the two. Although sometimes linked, what makes them different is the former is only achieved thru power and control of peoples’ lives, that is to say how it impacts their lives, their childrens’ lives, their childrens’ lives, etc. In otherwords, a group of people dominates another group and imposes a set of standards upon them that effects every aspect of their lives, from Banking-loans-cr scores, etc.,the criminal justice system, health care, life, home, health and car insurance, mortgages-the rate of interest,education-college loans, and so much more. While the latter describes a single experience of how someone perceives you to be and hwo may treat you differently. This experience has little impact upon your life as whole. The former effects every aspect of a person’s life. See my earlier post for a more detailed explanation of Racism-White Supremacy. If you’re not afraid, I advise you to read all of my posts for greater clarity and more detailed information on world history as well. Tunjii
# 69|SImon says:
I still keep my opinion. The differences among the races is completely obvious, I don’t know why someone tend to deny it. But I m not racist, if u speak Chinese, I like call myself 种族论者. I still think everyone is equal, even it exist a lot of differences.
For Tunjii,
1st, the first civilisation is in Mesopotamia, not Egypt.
2nd, the conclusion of the National IQ study is, asian﹥white﹥black.
# 70|Tunjii says:
This post is to Simon. Simon I’m not sure if you’re familiar with the rearch that was done by Bruce Williams at The Oriental Institute of Chicago . His research substantiates the fact that they’ve found 12 dynasties, in a place called Qustul, in Nubia, older than the first dynasty in Egypt. This would make Civilization older by several hundred, even a few thousand years, in Africa, which is where Egypt and Nubia are.These nothing more than extentions of the much older Civilization in Ethiopia ( Ta-Nehisi ). As I’ve said in my earlier posts, you must take another look at the new research available . Please do yourself a favor and go get those books I suggested, perhaps, you’ll begin to understand what I’m saying. You are still functing off of the old infrmation that racists Caucasians have been promoting for the last hundred years. Only recently, in the last twenty have they reluctantly began honestly telling the truth . If hope you go get those books soon.
# 71|Tunjii says:
While I’m at it, let me say this about this IQ pseudo science and nonsense. There is no such difference in IQ among the races. Ofr instance, this writer is Black and my IQ is very high, but that is really of no consequence. What is of greater importance is how that intelligence is applied to help humankind. Short of that, it means absolutely nothing. In addition, you can look in Europe, Asia and Afrika and see people on the margins of Civilization. This is even true today. But you must go back in history to fully understand how things came to be. Othewise, you’ll misunderstand what is really going on. For instance, if you look at the nation we call Israel today, one would assume that they’ve always been there. However, if we look at history we see that before 1948 that geographical area was called Palestine and had call that for more than 2000 years. And unless one understands this one fails to see why the Palestinians continue to fight for a homeland. If I broke into your house and called the authorites, and they gave me possession of your home, you’d be pissed as well. We must bring honesty to the discussion, along with facts. In fact, the people who came from Europe to take the land from Palestinians are not biologically, anthropologically, or historically, related to the people of the Bible at all. In fact, they are imposters. But you wouldn’t know unless you study history. To put it bluntly, the people of ancient Palestine and Israel were Black, and looked no different than any other Black person today.If you ask any so-called Jew, if he’s honest he’ll tell you this. I know, because I’ve been told by them. Not to mention, my serious study and research of the subject.
# 72|Mary_in_NY says:
I have been reading this whole thread and admit I am intrigued, if a bit disturbed. For the record, I am a 20-something white American female very interested in the goings-on within China and (if it’s alright) would like to add my two cents…
Tunjii, I think you are correct in regards to intelligence-remember when they mapped the human genome?-They discovered that out of all the multitude and variation found within the genetic code, only roughly 1% determines what codifies hair texture, melanin content, and other factors that roughly correlate to race. Pseudoscientific papers like these are ultimately in my opinion not what they seem-why is it that nobody who reads them asks 1) who the audience it was intended for or 2) more importantly, who paid the bills for the “research?” (I remember as a 17 year old having a class in which our teacher showed us similar papers written at different times in different places: one from Nazi Germany describing Jews, another from 1935 in America describing blacks, and yet another from Apartheid-era South Africa. All three had a political agenda and all three typically targeted an audience who were fearful and ignorant.
I half wonder if history will repeat itself within China in this respect. I attend college and have witnessed mainland Chinese students firsthand with a truly revolting attitude towards blacks; it sends chills up my spine. What is worse is that they assume because I am a white American (with all the history that entails) I hold the same views as them-I have never believed for a minute in that kind of ideology in my life and the way they talk about black inferiority I actually have only heard once: an interview of Byron DeLaBeckwith (he was the Klansmen who killed Medgar Evers.) It was frightening to listen to, because with Beckwith and these students this ideology was believed without question, and I assume reinforced at home.
I tried giving these fellas the benefit of the doubt. I went to Chinatown (a friend of mine is bilingual and offered to translate what he heard.) Most emigres here are from Fuzhou, and very recent. We did a test first with me, then with Shawn (black pal) and then with Jason each going into a hair salon. Jason was treated like a little buddha, I was treated like a cash cow, and Shawn, I am sad to say, got treated terribly. (They let him sit there for over an hour…and said some things in Chinese I’d rather not repeat.) Jason eventually got our money back, but I could tell it wasn’t easy for him to see this. Has anyone had similar experiences within China?
I wanted to also ask if it is possible to get a copy of certain books like The Wave or Langston Hughes or Zora Neale Hurston or some of Basquiat’s artwork within China (I know some things are prohibited, yes, but I doubt that all of it is.) Would any of this be of help in changing ideas? If so, please get back to me. I am listening.
# 73|Le says:
yes mary!
I think the the chinese are most racist people on earth even rivaling the europeans! well i think you can get the materials that you need and even the the book called”the destruction of the black civilazation” written by Chancellor Williams as well. there us also some other great ones that tell about the chinese dynasties that have much black/african basis a well. i wish you luck as you have very VERY tough uphill battle,,but some are learning faster then you think too…
# 74|Le says:
as for the “intellegence debate…there is no basis and observable correlations of the Intelligence Quotant, as each race and ethnicity has it’s “genuises” and “idiots”! i have followed history and theme is that each “race” borrows from others and the predicessors and even innovates as you can see from history as some racial groups[i.e=asians] “stagnate and even are “anti-intellectial” in their thoughts and actions and very much exetremely superstitious and xenophobic.
year ago[1993-present ] the national science board placed a exhaustive study or school students and intelligence and college placements in large bound book they correlated and placed the datat within. It would be worth taking a look and making some decisions as WHOM this data is worth and WHOM conducted the studies, as i feel that in china and here in the united states, that most ethnic/racial groups of color those that are trying that is!]are “retarded” and “dumbed” down by the so called “educational” instutitions that we all have such reverance for.;-)Keeping aways from such racially motivated instutitions and the people they pay to put out the “propaganda” is the only way to go!!
always confront and make them stare the obvious truths in the face and most will try to twist or turn it around..or even aways from them..as FEAR motivates them and feelings of “superiority” and “civilization” guides them.
So always really research and see where and for WHOM anything “data” is benifiting or helping to make “policy” for….
# 75|Tunjii says:
What Simon and others, fail to acknowledge and who continue trying to deny the undeniable, is this: ” Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. ” - Aldous Huxley ( 1894-1963 ). The first two Chinese dynasties were Black dynasties: The Zjia( prnounced Zia and Zhang ) and The Zjhang . Don’t believe me, read the book entitled
” The Black Presence in Ancient Asia ” ed by Dr. Ivan Van Sertima. If you don’t have the testicular fortitude to acknowlegdge the facts, say so. It’s alright, we’ll try to work with you. But please stop denying the obvious.
# 76|Jeremy says:
Le - I don’t think Chinese people are the most racist in the world - that is a bit of a stretch. Please keep the tone of comments more civil - I don’t want this to degenerate into an argument about who is the most racist group of people, as there would be nothing to gain by doing so.
Tunjii - I can’t find other proof online that supports or refutes the work that Dr. Ivan Van Sertima did. It’s not obvious that these two dynasties existed and were black dynasties.
Any one work does not make history - he might be completely accurate and correct in this account of history, but he also might not be.
# 77|Tunjii says:
This post is to Jeremy, My question to you is have you read the books I’ve suggested? It appears you have a preconceived notion as to whether or not I could be correct. Until you’ve accessed the information I’ve alluded to, you have no room for argument. Go get the books I’ve suggested, then get back to me. Finally, let me remind you that the acient civilization of Mahanda-Daro ( The Harrapan Civilization ) in what is now the India-Pakistani area, which is an extention of a much earlier, ancient Ethiopian civilization and was Black. We know that the indigenous civilization of India was Black.Even the Ganges river is named after a Black general. You can still see remnants of Black people it there, especially in the mountanous regions of India. You can also, look at the people in the southern part of India, where you find very dark skinned Black people there. Right next door to this ancient civilization is what became known as China. Also look at the cultural trade in terra cotta and other ideas that are not indigenous to China and you begin to see what I’m talking about. However, please get the books, before suggesting that I’m wrong. Until you’ve accessed and analyzed the information I’ve suggested, how can you even suggest that I could be wrong? That sounds like a preconceived notion to me.
# 78|Jeremy says:
Hi Tunjii - I’d like to read the books, it is just a bit hard to access them here from China. I have about 10 books waiting at home from Amazon for the next trip to the States (it costs more to ship to China than the actual cost of the book). I’ll order the book you recommended by Dr. Ivan Van Sertima from Amazon and read it at some point once I am able to go home, because it sounds fascinating, and I’m always on the lookout for the ‘truth’ in any form, and hate preconceived notions of what is truth or not. Anyway, you’re right that without reading and looking further into the facts, that there is no way to know.
# 79|Tunjii says:
Let me add to my most recent post. The terra Coota I mentioned, that was found in China, along with other cultural practices are not indigenous to China. They are indigenous to Afrika. It’s the same with the findings in La Plata, Mexico, where the ancient Olmec civilization was found. We can say with certainty that this civilization was indeed a Black civilization and dates back to at least 1100 B.C.E. There is terra cotta, the huge Olmec heads, made out of carved rock and weighed 20 tons and are at least 8 feet high. They are incredibly Afrikan in their features. Only a fool would or could question what is right in front of their eyes. Now, getting back to the Harrapan civilization. This ancient civilization dates back at 2500 B.C.E. and was destroyed by Ayran Hordes between 1800-800 B.C.E. From then on, thru amalgamation, the lighter skinned people from this invasion began to systematically impose institutional Racism thru religion. They co-opted the Brahmin religion and imposed a racial hierarchy, with skin color representing the various body parts of God. The head being white or near white, the body being reddish-brown, and the bottoms of the feet being Black. This was a representation of the status ( skin color ) of the various people and where their station in life was/is to be. If you don’t believe me, do the research and see for yourself. This is the major reason Buddha adopted what is now called Buddhism. For we know that the Buddha was Black. For their is Racism-White Supremacy in India, as well. Jeremy here is, perhaps, an easier way to acquire those books you can write : ” Everyone’s Place ”
C/O 1356 W. North avenue
Baltimore, Maryland 21217
410-728-0877
Jeremey you can access all of the books I’ve mentioned at this book store. It is much easier to acquire those books there.
# 80|Le says:
to Jeremy!
yes forgive my “mispeaking” as i what i more or less meant to say that they do practice extremely racist beliefs…and i have found that no one group has a hold on this..as even others in africa to australia carries a belief of racial “superiority” or most likely a fear that they are racially/ethicially “inferior” in ways. i will use more sense and judgement in a post as i DO NOT want be like those others with whom I do condemn to raciall innuendo and rhetorical biases based on nothing…;-)
peace to all!
# 81|Tunjii says:
Le, you are correct in saying no one group has a hold on racial superiority. That’s what is called Bigotry. That is not Racism. ” Racism-White Supremacy ” is something entirely different. Let us be clear about the difference as to how one feels about one race of people versus another race of people, as opposed to the power to make this a reality, the power to negatively effect a race of people’s lives. Neely Fuller has brought clarity to this discussion when he says,
” The only form of functional Racism that exists among the known universe is White Supremacy.” Fuctional i.e. actuality. It’s real. It exists in reality. So please stop saying that how I feel about you will somehow negatively effect your life, your children’s lives, so on and so. How I feel about you won’t effect you at all. However, how Caucasians feel about me could very well and usually does effect whether or not I get a job or the promotion; the bank loan to buy a house or car; whether or not I receive equal justice under the law, in the Court room; whether or not I will be treated fairly by the Police, if arrested; whether or not I receieve good health treatment or treated at all, at a hospital; What type of education, how good of an education it will be and whether or not I will be able to attend college and so much more. Unless you are able to acknowledge and understand this, you’ll never grasp what it’s like to be a Blackman or Black woman, in a world where you are hated, despised, continually held back from achieving the rights that the Black race should be able to achieve, especially given the fact that it is we from whom everyone else came from, and who brought civilization
(sciences, math, archetecture, astronomy, astrology, medicine and so much more) to everyone else. There are so many firsts when discussing Black people, but I won’t bore you with those details. I’ll let the proof speak for itself. Read those books everyone, please. If you are honest and have any decency and integrity do the research and then speak with knowldege and the facts. Peace, Tunjii
# 82|Le says:
Hello and thanks for the informative response Mr.Tunjii, as always welcome and yes you are 100% correct as i should have said “bigotry” or “prejudical treatments” as opposed to the term used so very much commonly as “racism” i will not try to write to much as this has been covered..but i can say with certain and effects, that i have read most books and such can say that without “critical thinking” and moreover..”critical actions”, this will continue to be a problem, but too, we must identify and quarnitine and correct said problems behaviors regards of the the people of color and such. Again…100% correct in your assessements of some historical data..but i also much hope that you will also follow[everybody] with more thinking and ACTIONS to even “forcing” changes and thinking and confrontations..as opposed to just “reading” books and thoughts that maybe a handful at best will read and less than that comprehend and apply with their own lives..and the lives with whom they may encounter and so to effectively “get” the message thru and cause real change with attitudes and policies. The books you have mentioned are very good and cause one to ponder and there are far more..that are written and such, many also[black and white, asian, edct..] may have “agenda” or “hidden”[perhaps overt] “axe to grind against said peoples.I , like you..canot deny nor refute history… Since no one thing[that i know of can exist in a vacuum] we must talk more and research and have cognizant postive ACTIONS that will cause the desired effects and affect others to deeper levels as you are doing now with your very informative and deeply passionate writing to this forum. And i will like yourself…to make sure that all peoples have fair and unbiased treatments in society and more “truths” and do the research should they wish to challenge and debunk most the the erronous and extremely biased/racist/prejudical/bigoted thinking that is so prevalent in this society..and throught the world. I must say too say that more history i have researched is giving many qualtiy assements to whom and where and what “race” invented what and how they applied it too! So i really know that all human “borrows” from each other…the things that make a “social” civilation infra structure, sciences, ethnical treatments, medicine, ect..]work…while keeping many superstitions and racial and ethnical, and tribal squabbles going on. THis is what too in the “destruction of the black civiliation”, that was trying to get across with african civliations and it’s people..and there are still many problems then..and now that should alway recognize and be on the alert for..as they are coming to many shore and bring good and bad beliefs and “antiquaited” thoughts and actions, and superstitions as well! and you can see the difference as how they greet and treat other black people from around the world..let alone from those from other tribes and clans too! Same with the chinese and most others too! And now i have written too much here, so please keep up with all facts and and true statements and challenge all of that that world has written and done too then decide yourself to which is to remain true and can work in your life! And one more comment is that we must be smarter and better in this respect with the various ethnicities and with cauasians, asians, ect..as i for me i do not care what they think….or even actions, until they can affect my life here… and where i will go in the world and life! So be strong and proud and do not let pride[whether real or artifical!] go unchecked before you will fall and very hard! as even the limits and total education can have its limits and make you just as “elistist” as any that there can me too! challenge each and very word and comments and the societies from they come from and “educate” if you can..the people with whom you think will want to hear and get across your message and actions to!
peace and keep up the good work, and please keep posting as all you here are of good background intelligence and i learn much from you all! [SOME more than others! ]
Leaaron out!
# 83|Adrian says:
Nationalism is undoubtedly the corner-stone of the modern manifestation of racism in China. It stems from two distinct roots;
1) European Imperialism of the 18th and 19th century, that exported the notion of ’scientific’ racism, as created and justified by the discred Social Darwinism. A racism based upon an hierarchy of the races that originally placed the so-called ‘White’ race at the top, and by definition, imbued that construct with all the notions of ’superiority’. This encounter between East and West has led to the formerly exploited, but now free and independent countries implicitly internalising the discrimination once aimed at them, and then turning it ‘outward’ onto other ethnic groups, but with their own particular ethnicity as the dominant, civilised ‘race’. For China, the cultural construct of ‘Han’ fulfills this role.
2)The other great bulwork of racism in China is indigenous and historical, and was generated within Chinese culture itself. How the non-Chinese ‘other’ was viewed, was highly developed as far back as four thousands years ago, when the ethnic groups not inhabiting the ‘Central Plane’ were viewed as ‘barbarians’. The Ti of the north, the Yi of the east, the Man of the south, and the Jung of the west. Behaviour, rather than bone structure and skin colour was the defining element. Race as such, at least int he modern sense, did not exist. The outer peoples were conisdered culturally inferior to the ‘Central Plane’ Zhou people.
Together, both these aspects make-up modern Chinese racism. And the notion of what it means to be ‘Chinese’, has moved away from a behavoural model, to one of purely skin-colour. Ironically, the former barbarian peoples of ancient China, were integrated into the Chinese state (initially by the Qin) and are now considered ‘Chinese’ today. Non-Chinese are defined by skin-colour and bone-structure. It makes no difference how a person born, say in the USA behaves, as long as their genetic history has originated in China, no matter how distant that origination might be. On the other hnad, a person of different genetic heritage, even if they are Sinotised, are not considered ‘Chinese’, due to the differences in skin-colour and bone-structure. This is the exact basis of racism.
As to Chinese people not admitting to being racist, it has been my experience that virtually no one outside of far-right political parties likes to admit that they are racist. Nowadays, particularly in the West, and fuelled by open borders when it comes to immigration, much racist rhetoric and language has ‘mainstreamed’, and been brought into the middle ground of moderate debate. As if it were ‘common-sense’ to be racist. Of course, if it is allowed the epiphet of ‘common-sense’, then by definition, those who practice such rhetoric do not conisder themselves ‘racist’. I think the Chinese government actualy encourages racism in China, by not preventing it, and educating people away from it. But then, the Chinese flag is made-up of five stars, the large star represents the Han people, who are more important - hence the larger star - and the other smaller four stars are said to represent the lesser important ethnic ‘races’ living in China.
Cultural attitudes about and against non-Chinese exist in my experience, in virtually all Chinese communities abroad. This is not surprising, as virtually every human population on earth exhibits a similar trend.
Thank you for such an interesting article, and fascinating debate.
# 84|Mary_in _NY says:
“I think the Chinese government actualy encourages racism in China, by not preventing it, and educating people away from it.”
Adrian, from everything I know about what goes down in the modern Middle Kingdom, I think it is not so much an issue of “educating people away” but rather a lack thereof, lack of real education. The curriculum from what I understand is incredibly hyper-nationalistic, yes? A Chinese student, by logic then would know more about Chairman Mao than he would about Winston Churchill or Dr. King, and certainly would not learn the lessons of the movements either was embroiled in. (I’m putting on my special wizard’s hat and looking into the crystal ball-he may know only about Churchill as a leader in WWII, but never be challenged to ask what moral questions were at stake, never to ask why, yes?)
This is not an excuse for behaving badly, of course. (In fact, I would be afraid of what could happen in a country with as many people as China has if it is allowed to fester too long…) My questions extend to the teachers here: are you allowed to challenge the odious ideas with truth and if you can, do you?
# 85|Michael says:
A couple of things. First of all, aren’t we a bit arrogant to suppose that the situation in China is bad? Yes, it is bad for we the foreigners who come here, but that is our choice to enter a homogeneous society. By *our* standards it is wrong, but not by theirs. Remember, being PC results from the need to protect the marginalized portions of society, particularly the disadvantaged. Even as a “black” foreigner, it is easier to get a job than a local Chinese.
Also, it’s just pure numbers. I find myself shocked when I see a random foreigner because it’s a very rare thing where I live. I want to look, but I force myself to not look. If I were to pass one on the street, I feel awkward. Should I ignore the person and pretend we are in the West, or should I nod or say “hi” out of the realization that we are like two pandas meeting in the wilderness. (Sorry to get poetic, hehe). I guess I can understand the gawking despite the fact that it irks me to no end.
As for the root, I don’t know, but I do know that jingoism reigns supreme here. Ever watch that horrible CCTV9? It might as well be called, “China is the Greatest, Most Glorious Nation to Ever Grace This Filthy Mudhole.” The “news” is so slanted, such as how they called the toy recalls in America as based on “design flaws” or how they just recognized the island nation of Niue, and only highlighted that this nation supports China’s dominance over Taiwan. All of the documentaries just highlight the glorious splendours of the nation and its people. It’s simply a conduit for propaganda, albeit subtle propaganda.
That paradox of being jingoistic and nearly xenophobic, but at the same time believing themselves to be peace loving, cosmopolitan members of the global community, just kills me. The dreaded Taiwan issue best exemplifies this contradiction. It’s like, “We love you Taiwan, so come back to us or we will obliterate you off the face of the earth.”
# 86|Redmanti says:
Well said Adrian. I have basically seen three core groups in this thread:
1) Nationalist Chinese that basically say there is little racism in China
2) Cultural marxists- that want to say that there are no differences and we are all the same
3) Those that have experienced racism in China.
My point of view is just that there are racists in China as there are everywhere.
# 87|Adrian says:
Very interesting comments. An academic colleague of mine once commented that he found it interesting that as the West heads steadily into postmodernism, China heads enthusiastically into modernity. The racial ‘long narratives’ still very much apply. Based of course, upon a mythological notion of ‘Han-ness’. The social construct of ‘Han-ness’ is not a biological fact. But we must be careful here, and admit that from a strictly biological perspective, ‘race’ as a concept has no basis in science, other then in rightwing rhetoric and pseudo-scientific enquiry.
Race is a social construct - primarily pscyhological in nature - that presumes at its base, a common genetic relaionship between people of the same ‘racial’ group. Unfortunately for those who adhere to this idea, genetic studies, even in China, have shown this not to be the case. Race then, is not a common genetic heritage. We all share a common genetic origin - within which there is much diversity. Race serves as a cultural vehicle for continuation within an ethnic group. I personally do not use the term due to its mistaken underpinnings, but for many, it shows a common sharing of language, history and development within a paricular ethnicity.
China is really a continent. It is made-up of many different genetic patterns (even Han has two broad categories, one reflecting northern migration into China, and the other, southern migration), the idea of one race being the essence of the Central Plane is purely mythological. If, two thousands years ago, a single kingdom within Europe (Weat and East) had managed to conquer all the competing tribes within the continent, then Europe would be like China is today. Anyone who knows European cultures, will know that there is incredible diversity between the differing people - even those who share a genetic origin, but whom developed a different and distinct culture to other groups of the same genetic pattern.
However, the idea that race exists is prevalent in China, and that the Han race is superior is a natural consequence, almost predicatable in its power as an idea. Not only this, but Chinese biology has been trying for decades to prove the ‘Multi-regional’ idea of human evolution correct, and the current ‘Out of Africa’ theory incorrect. The former idea was what Western scientists use to believe, that different ‘races’ of humans developed from different groups of apes, in different parts of the world, but at more or less the sametime. This would probably mean that we would not share a common gentic heritage, but modern science shows that we do. This type of scientist in China would like to prove that the Chinese race is different to all the others, and therefore, embued with a certain ’specialness’ lacking in other racial groups. The so-called ‘Peking Man’, a fossilised early human that went missing in World War II, was a female Homo Erectus dating back about two hundred thousand years, and has absolutely nothing to do with modern Chinese humans whatsoever, but is often used to demonstrate the ‘ancientness’ of Chinese presence. It is all racial imagery, of course, similar to the Nazi propaganda of the 1930’s. It is a story that some choose to believe, and in that sense is no different to the European racial myths of the 18th century.
If one happens to frequent Chinese discussion forums, one might well have seen racial rhetoric in action, from some of its members. Groups literally gang-up on any non-Chinese that enter the forum, effectively preventing them from joining in on what amounts to racial grounds. It is sad to see, and can be devastating to encounter. A Western person I knew, had a daughter with his Chinese wife. Tragically, the daughter died very young, but the Western father carried-out the Chinese ritual of attending the grave twice ayear. When he asked for assitance with the ritual (dates, times, correct things to do, etc), he was racially attacked over an extended period - this happened in the United Kingdom. As someone who might be described as ‘mixed’ myself (Chinese-European), I have experienced more times than I care to count, racism from ethnic Chinese people. From forums, to restuarants, it has been more or less consistent.
Of course, we must not judge everyone the same. Many Chinese people do know better and behave in a very civilised manner. But racism does lurk. In a recent documentary entitled ‘Whispers of Time’, a number of elderly Chinese people living in the UK, many fromthe 1950’s, were interviewed about their experiences as immigrants. Two clearly said that they believed that Chinese should not mix with other types of people. One said that German people are nicer than English people, and none of them considered themselves British, even though they all held citizenship!
Thank you
# 88|Adrian says:
Michael says:
‘A couple of things. First of all, aren’t we a bit arrogant to suppose that the situation in China is bad? Yes, it is bad for we the foreigners who come here, but that is our choice to enter a homogeneous society. By *our* standards it is wrong, but not by theirs. Remember, being PC results from the need to protect the marginalized portions of society, particularly the disadvantaged. Even as a “black” foreigner, it is easier to get a job than a local Chinese.’
A colleague of mine, formerly of Westminster University, London, attended the Chinese Studies department. Every year, they send about 20 students to China for a cultural exchange. One of the students on this tour happened to be of Black origin. When in China, he was not allowed to stay in the same hotel as his White colleagues. And the tutor, a British woman who speaks fluent manderin, and attended many lectures regarding issues of equality for woman in China, found herself ignored by Chinese women.
In Frank Wu’s book ‘Yellow’, he states that in the late 1990’s, a pole was taken within the Chinese community in the USA, as to whether they thought it was right to mix with other people. The result was 68% said ‘NO’ it was not right to mix! These attitudes are surely a consequence of a cultural view. Similar views have existed within Europe and the USA until fairly recently, they are not unique to China, but it must be fully acknowledged that such attitudes to exist.
Thank you
# 89|Michael says:
Adrian, yeah, I agree it should be acknowledged, but nothing you said convinced me that they ought to change for us. If you expect such deep rooted change to occur, please don’t hold your breath. I wouldn’t dispute the poll, but what does that prove?
Comparing European and American racial progress throughout their respective histories hardly can be applied as a semi-road map, or looking glass, for China’s future. America had mass immigration and it still took a long time for racial equality (some may even say it still doesn’t exist) to arrive, so how can we expect a nation like China, which is so fiercely homogeneous, to develop any faster, particularly with such low immigration levels.
I don’t want people to get the wrong idea and think I am supporting racism. I just want to say that when we come to a country we need to understand that it doesn’t change to suit us. The deep seeded ‘racism’ (as we call it), is in many ways just common knowledge/common sense for them. They truly believe some of the garbage they spew and because they haven’t been brought up in a nation that has ‘disadvantaged’ people and PC lingo, they have no sensitivity. They blurt out what is racist to us as if it were fact. It’s good if you can slowly chip away at it, by changing the minds of those around you, but it’s a long process that is seemingly endless. Therefore, I think an understanding and patient approach is better than irately branding 1/6 of the world as racist.
# 90|kaizokumaru says:
well, racist? haha. cool. yep. i agree with the point of chinese are more or less racists. but we can change to another way to say it, like it’s just different preference. not racism but racism. like i’m in denmark, when i want to enter into a club, the big fatty black jerk stopped me, said “u’re not allowed enter in.” i asked him “why?” he just said, “no reason, not u not today.” i’m slim and weak, did i give them a kind of threat? hehe. so, not chinese have racist, even black guys. f* this shitty world. enjoy!
# 91|kaizokumaru says:
so retarded website, always delete my posts. this is what u guys called ‘democracy’? funny potatoes!
# 92|Abhay says:
In response to Tunjii,
In responses to Tunjii’s misunderstanding of ancient Indian hierarchy.
I will make a money free correction, caste system was not based on color, it was based on occupation, people who excelled in sciences were likened to the head, the stronger soldiers likened to the chest and arms, the more people adept at business skills to the stomach and lower legs, the workers to the feet.
Even now we have fair skinned workers who acknowledge they
belong to an old social order which was in the lowest rung
according to occupation.
Because of the culture at their homes and ideas, some of them are unwilling to change or remain in their age old
traditional job. However, in India people do help them and
they have reservations so that they can change their mindset.
I would blame the white skinned europeans for mismanagement
and misinterpretation of caste system.
Please go to a country by yourself to experience the true things.
Dont listen to others.
Trust yourself.
With Regards,
# 93|Tunjii says:
In Re: Abhay, I most certainly do understand the origin of Hinduism. What I was referrencing, is how the Ayrans
co-opted Brahmism, around 2000 B.C.E., after they invaded the Indus-Kush Valley, destroyed the people and the Culture of Mohando-Daro ( Harrapin Civilization ), which was an ancient Black Civilization, and mixed their Racist ideas into it. They also started the long trek towards amalgamation. This is what created the Racism and as a consequence, embedded, Institutional Racism into the caste system, that still exits in India and the rest of the Indus-Kush Valley to this day. If you haven’t studied the origin of this religion, I suggest that you do. Now
if Hinduism is your personal belief, it becomes much clearer, as to your position. However, we must bring integrity to the discussion if we want to get to the true point. That true point should be historical accuracy-the facts. That’s what I’m presenting here-facts.I’ll leave you with this quote: ” When a man or woman, who is honestly mistaken, hears the facts, he or she will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest.” So, which one are you ? One who will quit being mistaken or one who will cease being mistaken ? So, I suggest that you read the book entitled, ” The Africans In Early Asia ” by Dr. Ivan Van Sertima.
# 94|Abhay says:
Dear Tunjii,
Allow me…..
First about India and Brahmins.
A few hundred years ago, there was no boundary to say this is India.
Bharat was the land of the honest and brave, which comprised
of Afghanistan,India,Nepal,Tibet, Burma, until Java and Sumatra.
African races were all around the world and they taught people civilization and they were in Bharat(present India)
also.
I disagree that Aryans could have such a noble thought as purity in actions and thought which is Brahminism,they were invaders.
Any person in any part of the world regardless of color, race and creed does his best to lead an austere,simple life with good behavior and non-voilence is called as a Brahmin.
Egypt,India and even china(if you remember sichuan province also has an old race) has old african heritage.
How can the invading horse warriors,meating eating aryans
introduce brahmins ?.
If you observe closely, in Ancient India, there was a clan called as kshatriya(soldiers) (who infact were the Invading aryans).
EVEN TODAY MANY BRAHMINS in India are Black, Brown or Fair not (white or pink).
Personally I would trust thousands years of experiences, facts and truths rather than look at clay pots and drawings
to make conclusions.
Some people say that Eyptian Pyramids were built by slaves, (but actually it is absurd), there were no slaves and the precision of early pyramids surely denoted deadly intelligence, surely lost at present time.
With Regards,
Abhay
# 95|Abhay says:
In reference to Tunjiii’s remark to caste system.
Forgive me if not appropriate in this thread, but I want
everybody not to be so ignorant,so I want to make a point.
I agree there is a very strong caste system existent even till this day in India.
The reason is that india is a melting point of cultures and races. To have an unified country based upon occupation an ancient work order system was made.(this was not based on race and color).
Which as exploited by the Invading Britishers and the Portugese which ruled the people by dividing them and they made the present caste system you so innocently read in the books.
So beat it, dont blame caste system on Indian culture.
With Regards,
Abhay
# 96|Tunjii says:
IN RE: Abhay, You’ve misunderstood what I said. What I was talking about was Hinduism ,which has its origin in Brahmism, although Hinduism has become a Racist religion. As to the caste system itself, it predates the Ayran invasion, but is all intertwined in the convoluted new religion that came out of Brahmism to become Hinduism. This new convolution was controlled by the Ayrans, who were now in control of the Indus-Kush Valley.The ayrans then made sure that they would maintain their hegemony thru this process. The same way the Arabs did with Islam and Caucasians did with Christianity. This convolution process didn’t happen over night, but took, perhaps, a thousand years. But this was a major reason that Buddha became disgruntled with Hinduism and founded Buddhism. As to how much I’ve traveled or not traveled, you are assuming aren’t you ? I have traveled and my studies are quite vast and I’ve been studying for over thirty years of my life. Again, I say you must be a Hindu, ther’s no other reason to so vehemently defend such a Racist system.
# 97|DDT says:
As an African American female who have lived in China for 3 years teaching & traveling throught China. Can say that I have never experienced face to face racism. Only a couple of times with run in with a taxi driver in which the police were called because I refused to give the 250rmb the driver requested picking me up & droping me off at my apt. in which it’s only a 70rmb one way.
Prior to coming to China…many people said that Chinese were very prejudice. I have traveled to rural areas & have never had a negative experience—thus far except with the taxi drivers. Many people percieve African Americans & Africans in general as negative/ dirty people.
Despite what race a person is there will always be some form of racsim. Furthermore, I have ran into more racist expat’s & this is where many Chinese get there prejudice from. From the expat’s who tell them what type of people we are…until they meet & they have a different perception.
For any minorities whom have faced racism or subjected to…I always look at the person & say hello in Chinese & English & give them a slight smile:-) Ignorance is Bliss
# 98|Tustennuggee says:
Has anyone seen any black dealers in the casinos in Macau?
The indian casinos in Calfornia are thriving on what are mostly Asian patrons. I have noticed how rude they are to all, caucasians and other patrons and the dealers. There are no black dealers in these casinos. This is something the ACLU should probably look in to.
Are you aware of the underground cities in San Francisco and Reno that were built during the gold rush and for the railroad workers ? Opium dens and prostitutes, for certain, probably all of the other exploiters were there too. The bias against these Chinese, as with blacks, and Irish, and Polish, came from the competition for unskilled jobs, which by definition, were the jobs of the ignorant and uneducated.
About 30 years ago, in a California town, I hired a Taiwanese engineer, a recent college graduate, who could not get a job - the prejudice was still prevalent althugh I believe it is much better today.
So tell me, the reaseon for my comments, should an african american friend simply stay home and pass up a perceived opportunity in China ?
# 99|victor says:
hey davon going to china is a great experience and dont let racism put you down you live in the US and im sure you’ve experienced a TON of racism circa 2007 and not in 1911, in america you have probably been overlooked for a job because of a white competitor and have been a victim of sterotypes and insults, yet you still call the US home and have been able to accomplish many things, so dont let that discourage you about living anywhere else in the world
if it helps you though I’ve read many times and have heard in Japan popular culture makes being black desireable to sell a cd record labels will have to put a picture of a black guy on the cover even if there is no black person in the band, many japanese youths spend a considerable time in tanning salons and braid and dredlock their hair and are consumed with hip hop music and afro-american culture, a black person is considered “mysterious” and cool
so if you want your race to work for you and not against you maybe japan might be what you are looking for?
but it doesnt matter what race you are white or black if you are a foreigner in china you WILL be stared at, and people will smile or laugh and say “hello” in their best english which really should not be a big deal or bother you, ive been to towns in 2007 where i was told i was the first foreigner in history to enter, so you being american and a minority at that you WILL attract attention and if you have good social skills that will work in your favor, so china shouldnt be a “waste of time” for you
good luck!
# 100|Jeremy says:
Hi Tustennuggee - It depends on what you are looking for and what your opportunity is. If you have a real job opportunity in China that will further your career, it is almost definitely worth it. If you are going to teach English and experience the culture, it might or might not be worth it, depending on where you are going in China, what the school is like, and many other things. It seems to me that most people would probably get more out of traveling through China for several months (cheap) than teaching there for a year - but again, just my opinion.
If you have what seems like a real opportunity, go for it.
# 101|Trixie says:
of course racism exist in all people. but what we should be concerned about is how the people show their racism. I believe everyday there are thousands of Chinese school children who live in countries like the US or other western countries who get beaten up by black and hispanic kids in schools, or chinese adults who get picked on in their workplace or on the streets by white racists. At least Black people who go to school in China wouldn’t get beaten up by Chinese students in school. Besides, chinese maybe the people who have the most self-discrimination. I don’t think any one race would treat their own people quite as badly as the way chiense treat their own people — in all facets of life. So why do you folks still care about whether chinese in china discriminate against other race?
# 102|Abhay says:
Dear Tunjiii,
I beg to say that I have clearly understood your idea.
I just want to make my point about what I believe is TRUE.
I have travelled widely and cleared many of my misconceptions
and misunderstandings across continents, except the north
and south pole.
Anyway,I hope you are in the right path and be god be with
you and help you always.
With Regards,
Abhay
# 103|TAIPAN says:
Racism in China!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!SO WHAT?
I am of Chinese origin born outside China, been a minority since birth, BEING DISCRIMINATED AGAINST? SO WHAT?
I’ve lived with it for over 60 years and in different parts of the world, DEAL WITH YOURSELF AS OPPOSED TO “DEAL WITH IT” GET OVER IT! next!
N.B. THIS IS NOT INTENDED TO ENGAGE IN A BATTLE OF WHO IS right OR WHO HAS THE LAST WORD, THIS IS MY OPINION AND BELIEF.(period)
# 104|Roth says:
Just want to say that for people who think HK and Taiwan are much better, than they really haven’t been there or gotten immersed. True, they may not stare at a darker skinned person like a country bumpkin or yell openly at them, but that doesn’t mean you’ll ever be accepted as an equal or let alone into the inner circle. In HK at least, while white people are respected, it doesn’t mean they’ll really be accepted. They still get mocked behind their backs. It really has nothing to do with media. For those who believe it is, are themselves ignorant and brainwashed. What it is, is Han pride and a shared historical, cultural sense of sino-centric and homogenous superiority. A westerner once remarked that even the lowest peasant in China has this inner confidence about being Chinese, even though he has nothing! What people experience in HK and Taiwan is a subtle form of racism. Most are polite and friendly to you on the outside, but will talk behind your backs. They will never be violent against you like in USA. This is mostly the same in Japan (although the Japanese youth may go through a fad where hip-hop is very cool so think blacks are cool). However, Korea is far, far more racist than China, what with their belief of ‘pure blood’ and all. Actually, that does raise a good point. Why should Asians accept blacks with open arms if they don’t want to? It’s not America, and if a country wants to keep itself homogenous, why shouldn’t they be able to? Did it ever occur to blacks, that maybe Asians do not want to ever mix with them because they don’t want their race to go dark skinned? Is that really wrong? Homogenity and wish to self preservation should be a prized trait. It is also a natural trait.
# 105|Adrian says:
All very interesting. Racism should not become a defining aspect of a culture. It exists, yes, in virtually all cultures, but it would be wrong to assume that EVERYONE within that culture is ‘racist’, as such an attitude is tantamount to discrimination, which is the basis of racism. It is a matter of treading the thin line between acknowledging the existence of racism without fear, whilst not reacting to racism with hatred and anger, which often serve as a counter-racism based upon the notion of the ‘other’.
Becoming bitter for experiencing racism, although often tempting as a response, does not solve the problem of racism, or educate those who perpetuate racism, that their view is destructive. I think that racism is over-come by not perpetuating it, and setting an example of dealing with people during social interaction, as fellow human beings with unique cultural attributes, regardless of those attributes.
Racism exists within Western cultures, but it is not used as a defining aspect of those cultures. Infact, many Westerners react with disbelief when told of the racism that non-Europeans suffer within European cultures. And much of thr racism is purely casual and off the cuff, develivered with total non-comprehension of what is being done to another person. The Chinese version is not unique in this sense, but follows exactly the same pattern. Much of it is subconscious and not ‘meant’ in the sense of the rightwing rhetoric is meant.
Thank you
# 106|Adrian says:
Korea is an interesting case. I live in south London, and London comprises of most people from all around the world. However, not far from where I live, is a place called New malden, which happens to be the only Korean community in the UK - numbering about 10,000 people. The place is vibrant and clean, and there is a healthy mixture of Korean and British culture in the hi