Ripping off Expats in China?
Imagine you were a repairman with a small shop. Someone walks up to you, describes in full detail what they want (with a very clear sketch from his girlfriend that makes things even clearer). Yet, because he is a foreigner, you decide to charge him 25 times the price a fair repairman would charge to do twice the work (ie 50 times the price).
Does this make any sense at all? It doesn’t to me either, yet in China, it can and does happen. It’s hard to imagine this EVER happening in the States. No one would be stupid enough to ask for a price that only a mentally challenged person would accept. Not unless they didn’t want the business at all.
Getting Ready to Move to Shanghai
As I prepare to move from Shenzhen in Southern China to Shanghai further north, my girlfriend and I have been getting our place fixed up to make it more likely that our Hong Kong landlord will refund a small portion of our outsized deposit (we are breaking contract early). Part of this process is replacing a small glass door for a shelf that had broken earlier in the year.
Of course, doing anything in China takes way longer than it should. First we called our apartment complex’s management office and had someone take a look at it. He told us there was someone who specialized in glass things in a shopping center in Dongmen, Shenzhen. I went there and asked, but of course they didn’t have anything there. Turns out he meant near the shopping center (but did not say this). So off to find a glass repair shop.
It turns out that there were glass repair shops all around where I live. It seems as if glass repair is a fairly profitable business to be involved with in China. Yet it took a few minutes to find the first one.
Stupid Enough to Ask for the Moon
I talked to five people at this shop before one seemed like they were willing to do it, and then asked the price. The dragging out of the process made me feel uncomfortable and I knew I wouldn’t get a good price, but this guy asked for 1500 RMB. 1500 RMB!!! Was he crazy? I told him off several times and told him that no one would be stupid enough to have him replace a tiny glass door (53x44x5cm) for this much money. Right as he opened his mouth to justify his ridiculous price, I walked off. Although many people in China will jack up the price on (Chinese speaking) expats if they get the chance, I knew I could find a far better price.
The next shop sent someone home with me right away without talking about price (and in quick fashion). On the way I was friendly to the young guy, and after he saw the job, he offered to replace both doors for 60 RMB (with no negotiation necessary).
How is it that a Chinese person, or anyone for that matter, would think an expat was stupid enough to pay 25x the going price for half the work? Needless to say, this was absolutely ridiculous. Less business for people like this.
Have you ever had anyone try to charge you 25x or more of the actual price of a good or service? What’s the most someone has tried to take you for?
wow, thats ridiculous. i cant say that anyone has ever quoted such a high price like that before. but when they do cross the line, i do walk away and do not consider giving them business.
Yes sir, i have been in China for about 1.5 years now and i noe exactly wat u mean n i feel for ya too. I am also Chinese but born in Canada, since i’ve been here i noticed and experience all the freaking scams n ripoffs.
I jus don’t get it…i guess money to them is their only prioity in life…China taxi’s also are scammers driving u extra km and they also put up a great acting job like they don’t noe..
I also watched on u tube about 2 white guys that went to sum place jus to try the tea..and wen they ask for the bill it was like $6000-$8000 rmb but lucky one of the white guy video tape themselves in that place etc…then they called the cops and they asked the owner blah blah and the owner had the guts to say she neva seen them in her tea house etc…but after the video came out she had nothing to say and the cops also found the receipt that was given to the 2 dudes…
Over all just be very cautious and if u sense sumting is not rite leave.
Heres a neat little trick. No one in China is carying a gun and chinese culture abides by the “Its not by business.” mantra. So you walk away. Thats it. If you are overcharged after the fact. walk away. They may threaten to call the cops..let them. Walk away. The police are busy with a million other people and chinese traffic goes at an even, slow flow. You have 20 minutes to talk in any direction you please.
I can cut prices in half by asking for prices in the local dialect. Still people pull the same stunts. When you approach give them a low price. They usually take it. When you walk up for a bootleg dvd..say 2 kuai, right? When they say anything else walk on..they will tug your shirt and you will get your price.
One more thing: Unlike the land of George Bush..in China, if you are smart, honest, work hard and can see two sides to an argument, then you are either in a University, Government, own a buisiness or otherwise occupy a good position. If not, you are selling on the street, then you are probably slightly more intelligent than a large lizard. Most of the people you run into on the street or taxi are like this. Completely blowing the “Asians are smarter” stereotype to pieces..however for most ex pats, it can develop into a feeling of being surrounded by morons or alienation because morons are constantly trying to cheat you. Just remember that your not alone. They do this to wealthy Chinese who are out of town and aren’t familiar with the local prices. It is sad how many people are as stupid as they are greedy, but that is exactly what anchors them where they are..middle age selling things on the street or working in a restaurant. And China is a rich country..think of all the dollars in people’s pockets that are rushing by in a single day. With some honesty, intelligence and service many people get ahead very quickly. Ultimately its not your loss, its theirs.
The are situations where they just hike up the prices and then there are situations that are really scams ( like the tea house fiasco ). Its buyer beware. I have gotten more cynical since being here.
Andy’s observation is interesting. I see that in a country with a population this large, there are bound to be extremes at both ends of the spectrum.. and a lot of people at each of those ends.. lots of extremely stupid people.. lots of brilliant people.
Someone once pointed out to me that its a confucian thing. You have the 5 relationships (family) and just about everyone outside those five relationships is fair game in a take want you get good struggle for survival.
ha exact the same can happen to u if u are in France and not French.
Changing the plates of the disc brake of your car can happen in quite no action but u pay for it. New disc’s you ‘ll see but old plates you never realis , but 100 miles far away….no fun, same for Spain. Go to a local shop stay beside look at them be, nice smile all will be ok.
Go to a big Number one Speedo service, have a coffee beside , you are lost. Have fun
I discussed this phenomenon with my Chinese teacher, and his explanation was that Chinese [sales]people think that cheating people or ripping people off is fair game because the person getting ripped off has his own stupidity to blame.
But it bothers me to constantly be quoted these ridiculous prices just because of my long-nose appearance, and even after doing some hard bargaining at the market I almost always walk away feeling cheated, “I could’ve gotten it for a few kuai less”…
The real trouble is when you are faced with no alternative. Exiting the supermarket with heavy bags and not a [legitimate] taxi around: A nightmare bargaining situation. The same goes for arriving at the train station or airport of an unfamiliar place, being left at the mercy of illeg.taxi drivers ready to charge you 10-30 times the regular fee for going downtown.
So my experience so far of living in China is that you are as a long-nose almost always regarded as a wallet with legs, and you should avoid the situations where the “walk-away”-option is unavailable.
Just got into Shenzhen yesterday from Hong Kong on my first visit here (I live just outside Shanghai). I had two taxi drivers quote me horrible prices for getting to my hotel and with zero signs or maps to be found for the underground, I seemed to be stuck. Finally I went into a fancy hotel, where they not only got the hotel address for me, they provided a taxi who charged me the fair price.
At my hotel, I wanted to go to a tourist area outside of town so the concierge went asking the taxi drivers for the fare, since I told him about my problems with ripoffs. They all quoted too much so he finally phoned his friend, who drove me out there, waited for me, and drove me back for a reasonable price.
The Chinese can be honest but you have to find the honest ones.
Oh, I teach at a high school over here. I live in a small town where they have not yet learned the ability of ripping off foreigners, which is great. Whenever I need anything in Shanghai, I give money to my students to buy it for me. This way I don’t get ripped off.
There seem to be 2 stories above:
1) about a pleasant experience of having a glass shop owner send a young guy home “in quick fashion,” who took care of both doors for just 60 RMB ($7).
2) another a typical challenge about someone trying to take advantage of a stranger.
Complaints – more than 400 words vs. describing the
good experience – just 47 words.
This is not about glass shop, but I saw the note about the taxi driver. That happened the first time I took one back from Hongqiao to Hongkou. I kept asking, you don’t know, you don’t know (Ni bu zhidao?) and he kept driving without stopping to ask for directions until I started telling him I wasn’t going to pay what was on the meter. He figured it out pretty quickly after that. You just have to hold your ground, and try not to get in the red cabs here. Light green and yellow are the best.
I once had someone try to sell me a pair of shoes for 5,000 rmb. I turned to the Chinese guy next to me and asked “How much would you pay for these?” To which he shrugged and said “Maybe 100.” I really think that the only reason these people charge such crazy prices is because some people pay them.
Hi Jon – But do you really think they pay them? Who would be stupid enough =)
Hi Debbie,
Sometimes you just run into cabbies who want to take you for a ride. It sucks, but in four years it’s only happened like three times to me. I think 大众 / Volkswagen are the best – Shanghai has so many cab companies.
regine,
don’t compare France with China. France is one of the world top nations. French are civilized unlike chinese who will never be.
if you got into trouble in France its certainly because you adressed the locals with arrogance and in English which they are unlikely to understand.
if you were polite and greeted them with basic french, you would be treated very nicely.
so keep this cliche for yourself. France is not the most visited country in the world for no reason.
[edited for overly strong and overgeneralized attack on China and Chinese people, sorry]
I used to lived in New York City and I got ripped off quite a few times in the past
most cabbies(in any city) try to rip people off, I have had one cabbie who threatened to torch my house if I didn’t pay him 500 dollars… it was absolutely robbery, and the stupid thing is the cops didn’t even show up or helped and cab companies didn’t care
I ended up paying him 300 dollars just get rid of him
the cabbies can get away with anything in new york
don’t ever take cabs in new york, especially the black cabs(which doesn’t have meters and relies on a agreed upon price)
cabbies in China do try to rip people off, but not as often or serious as American cabbies
native chinese get ripped off all the time too
Rigine, John’s comments are very interesting, he is kinda confirming a typical French attitude,”China will never be civilized like France” I do a fair bit of travel from China to France and have some great French friends and accociates but yeah, John’s attitude is very common, and most people in busines would agree you would get ripped of or even would be at more physical risk in France than China.
As with John, the French dont always seem to capable of seeing their faults, but to their credit, after spending time here in China they eventualy get it.
In life you tend to attract what you are, also open your eyes and you will also see a lot of positives, both in France and China!
My advice to John? the world is a big place, try to enjoy it all, you will benifit.
Well, I agree to those above who say that even the native Chinese get ripped off too.
I am of Chinese parentage but lived my life in the world of the west. I must say I am horrible at bargining and when I go to buy stuff I often get ripped of much more than my non-asian friends. It basically comes to your bargin skills.
However still those friends of mine tell me that when they ask for something, say a pair of jeans, (which in fact are fake) the price that they are given are maybe 10x more than they would give me.